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I understand the ES model isn't the sporty like the IS, but i would hope there would be a bit of a performance boost in comparison to the camry if they're gonna use it in the ES.
I for one hope that Lexus does NOT give the ES - at least in non-F-sport versions - ANY more “performance boost” since that usually translates into a still firmer ride. I love my ’22 ES350 UL but the ride, while more comfortable than many cars out there, is still firer than the previous generations. The automotive press has convinced the public that we all need “sport” handling in every single vehicle. If people want it, that’s fine, but any of us do not.
I watched the Savage Geese review on the new Camry last night and the explained that there is a clear distinction between the more luxury oriented variants (chrome, softer ride, actually more cushioning in the seats) than the sportier versions (which is, of course, what they were given to test) with firmer springs an damper rates, and, as is now the norm, blacked out everything. So to me that’s fine, it gives us a choice in dynamics and comfort.
Hopefully Toyota will use that same sort of approach with the ES and not just keep going down the too firm road!
The 2025 Camry features the Gen6 hybrid drive train and available eAWD. I would be surprised and disappointed if the 2025 ES did not offer those features, with or without model change.
The impression I get from reviews is that the Camry has gotten more sporty and fun to drive, while the Accord is softer and quieter, but doesn't handle as well. Kind of a role reversal? Still, Car and Driver doesn't seem that impressed and kept the Accord in the number one slot.
The impression I get from reviews is that the Camry has gotten more sporty and fun to drive, while the Accord is softer and quieter, but doesn't handle as well. Kind of a role reversal? Still, Car and Driver doesn't seem that impressed and kept the Accord in the number one slot.
Is that for the hybrids since Camry is now only available that way?
I for one hope that Lexus does NOT give the ES - at least in non-F-sport versions - ANY more “performance boost” since that usually translates into a still firmer ride. I love my ’22 ES350 UL but the ride, while more comfortable than many cars out there, is still firer than the previous generations. The automotive press has convinced the public that we all need “sport” handling in every single vehicle. If people want it, that’s fine, but any of us do not!
I like performance cars so my take is a bit different. I’ll use my first German sports sedan - a 2006 Audi A6 with the V8 - as an example. That, sadly, was the last year Audi put that engine in the A6. It had Audi’s excellent AWD system as well.
That car handled extremely well. I had a 2001 Corvette at the time and rarely found a curve that the Audi couldn’t handle just as well. We lived in Illinois at the time and I never had issues in any snowfall with that car. It did not have a harsh ride either. I had spent the prior seven years driving Nissan Maximas and the Audi had a much better ride quality. My only issue with it was reliability. I love the looks of the Audi but found them to be very unreliable. Mine was in the shop often so I traded it for an Infiniti M35x.
I was looking at the Mercedes E350 and the BMW M5 or 550 when I finally decided to look at a Lexus - purely because of reliability. The ES350 F Sport checked all of the boxes except one for me: performance. I would have liked to see Lexus offer the twin turbo V6 in the ES 350. While I’ve gotten used to the six cylinder in my F Sport I would like to have more power. I think the Lexus rides as well as my wife’s GMC Denali.
Is that for the hybrids since Camry is now only available that way?
I was talking to a buddy of mine and we both agreed we'd rather have the Accord from *two* generations ago than this "new" Camry. (let alone the all-new accord)
but for comparison ill show the new accord which I think has more modern sleek styling. its character line and belt line is straight and sleek... and.... new. also a real quarter window glass and not a piece of plastic the "new" camry has to give the illusion of elongation and newness.
at first i didnt like the accord but it grew on me, and i give honda credit for a bold bigger update despite declining sedan sales. i think toyota is playing it too safe on sedans because its segment/future is uncertain.
I do like that they deleted the old 4cyl auto trans powertrain. should've happened 10 years ago.
If this was the new ES, what would you guys think? i saw this on youtube, i guess someone took that leak pic thats going around (the black and white one) and rendered it a tad. perhaps there's newer ones out there.. hopefully we'll see some spy photos soon.
Is that for the hybrids since Camry is now only available that way?
Yes, that is for the 2025 hybrid-only Camry. There are a plethora of recent reviews and the consensus of what I sampled seems to be that the four with the hybrid is as good as the V-6 was, or at least not an appreciable difference.
I was talking to a buddy of mine and we both agreed we'd rather have the Accord from *two* generations ago than this "new" Camry. (let alone the all-new accord)
but for comparison ill show the new accord which I think has more modern sleek styling. its character line and belt line is straight and sleek... and.... new. also a real quarter window glass and not a piece of plastic the "new" camry has to give the illusion of elongation and newness.
at first i didnt like the accord but it grew on me, and i give honda credit for a bold bigger update despite declining sedan sales. i think toyota is playing it too safe on sedans because its segment/future is uncertain.
I do like that they deleted the old 4cyl auto trans powertrain. should've happened 10 years ago.
I rented an Accord a few years ago - drove very well but I hate the look of it. Camry looks are nothing to write home about either.
Yes, that is for the 2025 hybrid-only Camry. There are a plethora of recent reviews and the consensus of what I sampled seems to be that the four with the hybrid is as good as the V-6 was, or at least not an appreciable difference.
I have to agree since we just purchased a 24 RX350h with that hybrid setup. It drives beautifully and gets 38MPG. Crazy for a 4,500 lb vehicle.
I rented an Accord a few years ago - drove very well but I hate the look of it. Camry looks are nothing to write home about either.
True but just saying if i had to rank between the two (or three):
11th Gen Accord>10th Gen Accord>9th Gen Camry
I may even put 8th Gen Camry ahead of 9th Gen Camry. Not a fan of grafted on vastly different front end on old body/old sides. it makes it apparent it's a frankenstein car. lacks aesthetic cohesion. Time will tell.
If this was the new ES, what would you guys think? i saw this on youtube, i guess someone took that leak pic thats going around (the black and white one) and rendered it a tad. perhaps there's newer ones out there.. hopefully we'll see some spy photos soon.
Hard to make heads or tails out of this. The logo on the body there as opposed to the grill looks like Hyundai.
I actually like the 4cyl auto trans platform.
Mine is that.
It doesn't have the complicated hybrid system.
The transmission has actual gears instead of CVT.
Originally Posted by E46CT
I was talking to a buddy of mine and we both agreed we'd rather have the Accord from *two* generations ago than this "new" Camry. (let alone the all-new accord)
but for comparison ill show the new accord which I think has more modern sleek styling. its character line and belt line is straight and sleek... and.... new. also a real quarter window glass and not a piece of plastic the "new" camry has to give the illusion of elongation and newness.
at first i didnt like the accord but it grew on me, and i give honda credit for a bold bigger update despite declining sedan sales. i think toyota is playing it too safe on sedans because its segment/future is uncertain.
I do like that they deleted the old 4cyl auto trans powertrain. should've happened 10 years ago.
Believe it or not, there's no actual "CVT" in the hybrid system. Further, the hybrid system is a lot simpler with way less moving parts than the standard AT setup.
Believe it or not, there's no actual "CVT" in the hybrid system. Further, the hybrid system is a lot simpler with way less moving parts than the standard AT setup.
Again I have to agree. The Lexus/Toyota eCVT is just so silky smooth, you don't even know it's there.
