morgan1819

It's likely done it for a several years. My wife had the car for first few, and mentioned it a couple of times. I figured new tires would correct the problem. Nope. Next step was alignment, but it still requires constant steering. I'm driving it now since I am on the road for work, and it is less than pleasant on the highway. Tires and alignment have not helped. Wanted to get a second opinion on the alignment results (bottom half of the attached photo) from members of this forum.

Mike728

It's definitely not normal behaviour for this vehicle. You should probably have someone experienced with this sort of thing diagnose it, like your local dealer.

morgan1819

Local Lexus dealer did the alignment and subsequent test drive. They feel it drives normally.

I think they are clearly looking for an obvious pull to one side or the other. This is not the case. It simply never goes straight ... always correcting a bit to keep it within the lines. None of our other cars wander like the ES does.

Littleguy

My steps would be: 1. Inspect control arms/bushings and tow bars. 2. Inspect wheel bearings 3. Measure tread depth on each tire. Do an alignment, drive it a little bit and put it right back on the machine and see if the settings held.

morgan1819

Was recently told that a little negative camber on the rear tires would actually increase highway stability, which is contrary to the statement above.

Has anyone actually had the rear camber adjusted?

AlexNY

i thought the car needing constant correction and also feeling like the car is jiggling around was normal.
My car, when going above 80 mph it feels like the body of the car is going to detach itself from the wheels. Have not felt like this since my oldsmobile 88 25 years ago.
Took to dealer twice, both times they say is perfectly normal for ES, so i assumed the car rode like this from factory.
I was quite dissapointed for the first 2 months, i hated every bit of driving it.
i'm slowly getting used to it. i accept the fact this car is just a grocery getter from point A to point B with zero joy of driving.

Mike728

Nope, not at all normal. That said, some roads are crowned more than others, but you would notice it with most vehicles in that same stretch of road.

AlexNY

i mean, is not completely leaning towards one side as this would have been quite alarming. It's a very subtle leaning where i require minimal movement of the steering wheel to correct.
Also, driving the car under 60 mph it feels ok. but when there are gust of wind, the car feels like a tub in the water. I took the car to 110 or so mph on the highway. It did not feel safe AT ALL.
I usually take all my cars to rev limiter to see how fast it goes and how it feels. I have to say there are very few cars i did not feel safe doing this. Lincoln towncar was the worst and it wouldn't even go past 90 mph (had a 1992 with 300k miles). My 15 ES feels awfully close to that lincoln towncar, i'm not joking.

Mike728

Sounds like something's broke.

TechNut

Agreed. This is not normal at all. Our ES does not behave this way. We just returned from a 3000 mile road trip with our 2015 and never experienced the sensation you described. It drove true and straight with no problems (except for a rock that punched clear through my license plate (finally found a use for that front plate). The road speeds were mostly 70 mph on two lane highways and 80 on interstates. I made the “mistake” of driving through Salt Lake City where the prevailing speed was closer to 90, despite the posted speed of 70. Anyway, even at the higher speeds it tracked well and never needed any unusual correction, nor it it feel unsafe. It is certainly not a performance car but it handles just fine under all driving conditions I have encountered, including rough highways and windy conditions.

If if the dealer can’t correct the steering issue, I would recommend you take it to a suspension specialist. I had an Audi like that once, and found an independent shop that made it drive like new again - despite the fact that the dealer couldn’t resolve the issue.

tarm

first off there are a number of things that can cause this specific type of behavior and believe it or not its rarely the alignment in modern vehicles. As you had the alignment checked and i assume it was a full 4 wheel alignment as with IS front and rear each wheel hub has to be set. You have eliminated uneven tire pressure and wear. Alignments that were once in spec and then got out do not usually do so in a manner that happens equally on both sides or front and rear equally anyways.

Notice how the road is crowned (where it has the high hump. Many times roads are crowned based on the topography for water shedding. This is why a car will wander right on one road in one direction and left the other way or on a different road. Comparing how two different vehicles hold centerline helps ensure its just not the road which you have done.

When you get true "free" wandering both right and left on the same road and it seems like you are constantly over correcting (seesaw effect) with the above items ruled out this is text book symptom of worn steering/suspension components. When your steering is tight and no play in any of the joints it tends to hold the position for some distance on relatively flat roadway. If steering linkage /r tie rod joints gear assemblies etc are worn this will allow the wheels to wander right and left as a pair. Worn ball joints can also sometimes allow this as well but usually can have an effect on smoothness and vibration and pull to one side. Even worn struts can have an effect. Many times barring hitting something or an early failure its wear on a number of components together.

I may have missed it but how many total miles are on the vehicle? Has it had any accidents or hit severe potholes? How are the roads typically traveled in your area? Is this NY city roads, country highway etc?

My guess is if you get a good suspension mechanic under the vehicle on a lift and he goes to yanking and cycling the various parts he is going to find out of spec tolerances in movement.

It you want a search term look up 2014 Lexus ES350 Rack and Pinion assembly schematic. It can be replaced as individual parts or as a entire assembly but more for you is to get a visual of the various joints and gear sections where wear can occur and thus get loose or wandering steering.

Another easyish test is to lift both front tires off the ground with Jack and stands and have someone outside the car looking at the tires and another inside turning the wheel. Notice how soon the wheels start to move in relation to when the steering wheel is started to turn and how much before wheel movement. You could then lay under with the belly pan removed and trace which parts along the steering move first. You can grab the wheels and tire to shake them hard 3 to 9 and 6 to 12 and see if there is any movement/looseness. Is it just one wheel or do both shake move together as a paired unit . Of course if you are not a grease monkey then a good suspension mechanic would do all of this and more to check for worn and out of spec wear tolerances.

Depending on the road conditions the vehicle is driven on and the way its driven can and do effect the duty life of these parts. A person that drives hard on nice smooth sub and highways may very well have less wear and tear than a grandma that never goes over 35 but only drives in Brooklyn, NY. Its also why I hate sealed non-greaseable/serviceable joints. They were made common as majority of people never serviced them and thus sealed ones in comparison gave longer life. But compared to those that were serviced properly its half the life of a greasable joint. Most people these days use service centers for fluids so they could all be serviced and keep steering front ends tight for much much longer before needing replacement. Those today that change their own fluids like myself are the obsessive ones vs we use to be seen as the cheap ones. LOL We are all going to be greasing what can be and doing above OEM service recommendations thus we too would benefit. But repair (really replacement) service is where all the Factory dealerships make the majority of their profit as does corp with their inflated OEM part prices. Thus we are only going to see less and less maintenance serviceable parts and more and more replacement assembles versus individual parts.

Think about it other than basic fluids which are recommended serviced less and less there are no other real serviceable parts sans filters. Look at what was serviceable on a 60-80s vehicles and the individual parts that could be replaced. "Planned Obsolescence" at its best; thank you Edison and GE for that lovely creation to bleed the consumer dry.

Universe93

Great replies, but I've had this complaint for my 2013 ES350 ever since I bought it. It doesn't necessarily "pull" to one side, but it's difficult to keep straight on a highway. My older Acura CL-S and Audi A4 had true straight steering at highway speeds and never required the kind of correction my ES does.

I've done multiple alignments and tried different tires, but it never satisfied my lane wonder issue. I've learned to live with it.

tarm

OK but others with the same model and yr have not had those issues. To me this points to a loose steering gear box as that can be from a brand new car. Some of the Ford Super Duties 99-03 were known for loose steering from the get go. They had crappy factory steering boxes.

With that said it would be of interest to see what the wheel alignment specs are from each model yr es from 2013 to 2018 to see how much if any there is change. Also see if they used the same part numbers for the tie rod assembly and steering box. I wa able to tighten my middle daughters 83 Chevy K10 which of that era had the typical swing type steering LOL. Red head steering gear, New XRC tie rod kits, replaced the steering shaft couplers. Front end with more neg camber ad she steers tight and does not wander. But that took using more modern parts but it was doable. Its hard to believe something like a new 2013 should have wandering issues. To me that's not acceptable on a premium car.

heidihidin

Yup
Just the way this car handles
It is all a matter of perception and what you are comparing it to

Mike728

Again, this is not the norm, but it does appear to be present on a few of the ES's out there.

How can this be a matter of "perception"? Either your vehicle doesn't track straight, or it does. The only time I have an issue is with some of the roads in the area, where they are crowned significantly to improve water drainage. The issue is present to some degree on every vehicle I've driven. Some more than others and my ES is not in that category. The biggest factor are the tires.