Freds430

Always find it entertaining when someone starts a thread about the transmission fluid and needing to be changed. Many chime in with oh yes it needs to be changed and nothing last forever. They have ZERO experience on transmissions especially Lexus transmissions. Than there are the conspiracy theorist who state Lexus says do not change the fluid knowing it will fail as soon as it gets out of warranty. If I believed this to be true I would sell my Lexus and never ever own one again.

My local Lexus Service manager who has 25 years experience working on Lexus vehicles and has been trained by Lexus said it never needs to be changed. He went to Detroit where the transmissions are made for training and asked what is the #1 cause of Lexus transmission failing. Their reply was the wrong level of fluid and the wrong fluid. Both of these are factors in one changing the fluid. I will save my money and never change the fluid and listen to the experts. Never changed the transmission fluid and never had one problem.

NA2NC

I'm glad you found humour in my question. I was simply asking if these transmissions are Aisin units or in fact Toyota. The ES is nothing particularly special - it is a Toyota after all.

If this transmission is an Aisin unit, there is a fluid drain interval of 2-years or 20,000 km. This is why I wanted to confirm the transmission manufacturer.

I came from BMW who touted the transmission was sealed for life. ZF was the OEM for the transmission unit. ZF recommended drain and fill at 100,000 km.

If anyone could chime in and confirm who the OEM of the transmission is, it would be appreciated. I'm not looking to start controversy on my first post to this forum. Just looking for the information as previously indicated. I'll make my own decision on what to do for fluid changing intervals.

Tootsall

I find this an interesting topic. The Canadian printed Maintenance Schedule for the 2014 ES350 calls for an engine oil and filter change every 6 months or 8,000 km (5,000 miles). The online Maintenance schedule calls for an engine oil and filter change every year or 10,000 miles. The online 2014 Avalon manual also has a one year or 10,000 mike oil change interval.

Now it gets curious: Canadian printed manual, inspect and adjust coolant, brake, and washer(!) levels every 6 months and to change engine coolant at 10 years and thereafter every 5 years. It also wants brake fluid changed every 2 years! The online ES350, replace brake fluid every 3 years or 30,000 miles and replace engine coolant at 10 years or 100,000 miles. The online Avalon manual also calls for new coolant at 10 years but says nothing about brake fluid replacement.

Of course all say to check and adjust fluid levels every 6 months and to change engine oil at next 6 month interval if non-spec, 0W-20 had been used last. If the vehicle gets heavy duty use (towing, heavy loads, stop-and-go) then the Avalon calls for transmission fluid change at 6 years but no such call in either printed or online Lexus manual.

Now I’ve never heard of preventive changing brake fluid unless you are doing a major brake job (involving a master cylinder and/or wheel cylinders/callipers), or really heavy duty use (lots of stop and go or trailer pulling). I don’t believe I ever changed the brake fluid in my ‘03 Camry in the 13 years or 170,000 miles I drove it. Yes, it did have ABS.

So there are two questions: 1) Why the differing schedules?, and 2) Why no mention of changing transmission fluid unless there are heavy duty operating conditions (which should be self-obvious anyway)?

OBLexus

Ok, so here’s my personal interpretation of why the schedules are different... I live in the Middle East (Abu Dhabi).
Here Toyota and Lexus ask for service with engine oil and filter change every 10,000 kms or every six months, whichever comes first.
All German car manufacturers ask for this every 20,000 kms or once per year.
I think those differences are purely for commercial interests in different regions / countries, I suspect the dealers made certain agreements in terms of the wholesale pricing with the manufacturers vs the service income later on.

NA2NC

Different world regions have different maintenance and durability requirements. Lost of cold starts in cold climates take a maintenance penalty vs. warmer climates where you can run your oil a bit longer. Similarly, countries that don't have a lot of paved roads demand higher maintenance - i.e. South America, Africa.

Tootsall

I thought of that issue but the US climate varies greatly from Alaska down through Minnesota, Wisconsin, the Michigan UP down to Florida, Arizona, Texas, California, etc. (you might even include Puerto Rico)! The variation of climate from south to north is certainly much greater than the range we have in Canada...at least those regions where Lexus is most liable to be sold. I always thought it was high temperatures that did the most damage to lubricants whereas low temperatures and "startup circulation" issues would simply wear engine components (at least unless the wear was so excessive that the oil would get contaminated with metal particles). I do note that the Canadian printed manual does have a reminder that a lot of driving on unpaved roads means that universal boots, undercarriage nuts and bolts, etc should be checked frequently and adjusted/fixed as necessary. I was used to changing the Camry (I-4) oil (5W30, non synthetic) every 6 months (with the seasonal tire change) and before I retired I was putting 30,000 highway km/year on it. When I handed the car over to my daughter it was approaching 280,00 km and still did not require oil top-up between changes and the oil was certainly not dirty (unlike the oil in my wife's old Saturn which would blacken between gas fills!!...gotta love/hate those sloppy GM oil control rings). I think I'll go with the annual oil change: being now retired I don't put more than 10,000 km/year on the car and a lot of that is one or two major highway trips per year so pretty mild use overall (unlike the 401, 403, 407, Yonge St., Queensway, et al!). I'll probably look at getting the coolant at least checked next year (6th year of total use) and "maybe" transmission fluid at the 10 year mark. I really can't see getting the brake fluid replaced unless/until there is major work required on that system. Someone would have to provide a pretty compelling argument to combat 50-odd years of driving experience there and I've had only 1 vehicle that didn't go 200,000+ km (and that was an accident write-off). I will be using a Toyota shop for the work: the nearest Lexus dealer is near 230 km away (and the Toyota service department is willing).

TaninAuto

Here is a comparison picture of an 07 LS460 which has "lifetime" fluid. This original fluid was changed at around 90k. Problems were the entire vehicle was rumbling/vibrating at low RPM in 8th gear. Fluid change solved the problem and improved shifting all around.

NA2NC

I've found that the 6th gen ES 350s have the Toyota, not Aisin, U660E transmission. I am not sure why the Lexus manual does not call for a transmission fluid change. I've found that many of the Toyota vehicles that utilize the U660E transmission - Venza, Sienna, Camry, Avalon etc - require a fluid change at 60K miles when:
1. Driving while towing
2. Using a car-top carrier
3. Heavy vehicle loading
4. Extensive idling and/or low speed driving for a long distance such as police, taxi or door-to-door delivery use.
Given the service manual states that towing is not recommended, and the likelihood of Lexus cars being used for delivery purposes or being heavily loaded is low, is probably why fluid changes are not called for on the ES 350.

The ES 350 is nothing more than a rebadged Toyota Avalon and is not unique in any way from a power/drivetrain standpoint. I can't see why the ES 350 would be any different than any other Toyota product that meets the criteria above for changing the transmission fluid.

A Toyota dealer ought to be able to perform a drain and fill ensuring the WS fluid is used and the correct level is achieved. This video may be of interest: