Silverman1

2010 ES 350 with 35,000 miles. I had it in for routine maintenance at the Lexus dealer a couple months ago. Nothing very eventful resulted from inspection at that time (except to check the brake discs and pads in a while for turning or something, but they said plenty material is left and there's no rush on that at all if it's working fine).

A few weeks later, while racing to prepare to evacuate from Hurricane Rita (I live in South Florida near the beach) and behind on sleep, I drove to the bank fine but then when trying to start it (I have to say there's a 5% chance it was when shutting it off upon parking -- I just don't recall), it acted very weird. It's done this a few times since as well, definitely while trying to start it.

It would start to crank and "try to" fire but it would be very slow and labored and not kick into running, making substantial compression noises, and while trying it would be as if the battery/starter/engine were laboring to do their thing but instead of a normal labored electric-sounding effort it would go through rapid waves or cycles of high-low-high-low whirring or gurgling engine sound at about half-second intervals that included not just the starter spinning but the pistons cranking and the engine sounding like it was trying in vain to fire or was still cranking but had no ignition. And the really confusing part is that when it does this it continued trying to crank and apparently try in vain to start for a good few seconds after I had definitely removed my finger from the ignition button and my foot from the brake! Very, very weird.

I say "continued trying to start" but for all I know it could be fuel injectors didn't close or, what? I don't know. I want to say the ignition didn't disengage which I suppose would qualify as it continued trying to start. But then why didn't it? And why did it persist for seconds after I retracted into my seat and was touching nothing on the dash or the floor?

It has done this about three or four times now, randomly, spread apart over a couple weeks (except once it was twice in a row). Yet over these weeks now it's been starting fine on all other occasions -- at least a couple dozen times. It's been fine the past dozen times except yesterday when it tried to start and the sequence was very brief and it didn't start, though the steering wheel extended forward.

Now, I have to point something out. I'm still not home after escaping the hurricane. I've been under serious stress lately. I've had the car for over five years but I suppose it's possible that out of fatigue or whatever I've been lax in how I have been handling the startup procedure, meaning it's possible I'm hitting the brake after the ignition (but that should not be able to do this as far as I know) or I'm letting go of the ignition too soon (also should be able to do this, I don't think) or perhaps, long-shot, it's possible I'm tapping the ignition to lightly and it's partly engaging then disengaging then engaging again?

I want to also point out that when I get in the car before attempting to start it and I put my foot on the brake, the brake pedal sinks considerably. In trying to be very conscious about how I'm doing the startup process (I even record the audio with my phone now to let a mechanic hear it if I can capture it, but so far it hasn't happened since I began doing that for about a week now). In being very deliberate about the startup process, I've noticed that when I first sit down and put my foot on the brake it sinks so much that I end up pumping it a couple times to bring it back up and make it nice and firm, and then while still pressing on it I hit the ignition key and so far it has started fine every time.

I'm sharing that because, not being a mechanic, it seems possible to me that when I get in and to it fast out of habit and just hit the brake and then the ignition, the brake pedal might be too low and therefore not be doing what it's supposed to do properly in allowing or not allowing the ignition sequence to engage (or disengage???). (This also has me a tiny bit concerned about the brakes but since it was in for service recently and they said it's fine I'm hoping it's okay. I'll have them check it when I get back home in a few days. I have a 10-hr drive first and I'm confident it will be fine. The brake pedal being soft while the engine is off until pumped a couple times may be entirely normal and I just never noticed before, for all I know. But it does seem a bit softer/lower than normal when going to start the car, until I pump it and it comes right back up to firm.)

It's not the battery. I know what a low battery sounds like and behaves like, and it's obviously also not the alternator since it starts perfectly fine most times and the first instance was weeks ago.

I called Lexus and the spoke to a few service people (who are not mechanics -- no way to talk to a mechanic). One went and asked a mechanic and he said almost certainly the starter, probably shorting, though he also said if it persists spinning it could catch fire. (Seriously?) (Luckily, even if he's right, it hasn't spun that much or for that long when it does this. Quite the contrary, it's slow and laboring when it does it.) Another service manager at a different Lexus location said it's a puzzle because he very rarely replaces starters or starter relays or ignition switches in this model and year, and it could be anything. I've even been told that bringing it in to check it will probably not reveal anything unless they happen to catch it when it's exhibiting the behavior.

I guess I can try to replicate it with hitting the brake pedal without pumping it. I'll do that after I get home in a few days. (I'm just reaching here for a guess at what the common denominator might be.)

There's been no Check Engine lights on the dash or anything of the sort at all (so they tell me there's probably no chance the computer has an error code stored in it).

I asked one Lexus service manager if I should just replace the starter (about $700 which I can't spare at all) and they said they would definitely not start throwing parts at it. But the other one said his mechanic was quite sure it's a short in the starter and to just replace the starter.

I'm hoping I have no problems on my drive home. I'm driving from Orlando to Fort Lauderdale on "side roads" since I don't like the highway. I plan to use the metal key in the FOB to lock the car and keep it running while I run in to use the bathroom on the way down, unless I stop at a Denny's to eat or take a motel overnight part-way down. I feel pretty confident it will be fine either way (and for some reason I feel even more confident about it being fine if I pump the brake before hitting the ignition key, though I realize of course that that may in fact have absolutely nothing to do with anything).

At least so far the worst is that it happened twice in a few on one occasion about a week ago but so far the good news is that it has always then started fine after exhibiting this behavior and continued to start fine for days after.

Mechanical advice and physic guesses are all very much appreciated!

Thanks!

mlacomb

Brake pedal position is going to have absolutely zero to do with how the car starts - aside from not pressing it will mean the car doesn't go into start mode.

Let's start with basics - and that would be the battery and connections. How old is the battery? You have relatively few miles on an almost 8 year old car - if that's the original battery, I'd replace it just because of the age. And that leads to connections - are they solid/tight and corrosion free?

Silverman1

I appreciate your efforts to help me very much but I respectfully think I need other opinions. I'm no mechanic but I know the brake pedal is certainly involved in the startup sequence since you cannot start the car until you depress the brake pedal first. It's sending some kind of signal.

The battery was replaced in about the past 12-18 months. The feedback from the one mechanic who a Lexus service tech checked with was that "There's only three things involved in the startup process. Battery, alternator and starter and it's definitely not the battery or alternator."

I have heard the behavior when the battery was dying and this is very different. Also, it seems to me a low battery or poor connection couldn't make it continue with pistons moving and an apparent attempt at combustion and failed startup for literally seconds after I stopped depressing the ignition button and brake, which is what it has done a few times.

Anyone else, please?

Thanks so much!

chuyrobles

It could still be the battery. Our 07 behaved similar to yours just two weeks ago. Wife said when she tried to start it at work, the engine labored to start. When I tried it at home, it started right up. I grabbed my battery load tester (Shumacher BT-100) and the 3-year old battery failed the load test. Then I tried to charge it and my charger (Schumacher SSC1500) displayed a "BAD" message. It was a Costco battery still on warranty and Costco covered 60% of the bill for a new one. A new battery solved the starting issue for us.

Check your battery. If OK remove starter and take it to a shop that can bench test it. Also, check your battery wire connections.