It seems everything I have read about the handling of the ES350 has been negative. Last weekend I drove mine up a mountain near Tucson - climbed over 8000ft in about 20 miles of tight twisting 2 lane road. I was pleasantly surprised. The ES350 was totally comfortable on this road. Not what I would call fun, but not a problem to drive at or above the speed limit. There is not a lot of feedback through the steering, but it is precise and the car goes exactly were pointed. The OEM Michelin tires were quiet on all but the very tightest curves.

My last trip up this mountain was in my G35 coupe and I have to admit that it was more fun. It would have been even more fun without speed limit enforcement and downhill traffic. That said, I see no reason to avoid "sports car" roads in the ES. It's handling is more than adequate for a luxury sedan.

Steve

 

It feels obviously ponderous in the corners, but quite secure and predictable (not that there's much to predict) considering its comfort orientation.

 

Anyone looking to the ES for a tight-handling car is smoking crack.

However, it does what it is designed to exceedingly well. Which is be smooth and comfortable.

Easily the best value car on the road.

 

If driven like an ES should be driven (Camry like), then it is smooth ride

trying to catch speed around corners...

 

Yup, pretty much. I was in a hurry today to drop my kid off at daycare. I take the backroads cuz they're pretty much deserted most of the time. Corners are not its friend. I've got no complaints about the handling cuz I know it's just a luxo barge, but a simple 90 degree turn shows what a drastic difference from my old BMW. I broke traction and got tire squeal at about 30-35 mph on the Lexus. I've taken the same corner at about 55 in my old BMW without feeling even close to losing grip. Sure 35 mph is more than fast enough, but being able to go much faster sure is fun.

Oh, I was watching kiddo in the mirror. He's in a Britax Boulevard carseat. He can't move much. Not even his head cuz of the head wings (great pillows for him to sleep on). He didn't even notice.

 

Granted it's common knowledge that the ES 350 isn't the best-handling of sedans when compared to say, BMW...but I've found that tires do make a bit of difference. I drove an ES loaner w/ factory summer tires that handled a bit better on a local 25 mph-posted cloverleaf interchange than my ES w/ all-season tires did, in that the loaner felt more sure-footed than my ES did.

 

I've had to drive a few cheap rental cars lately - Mazda 6 and a Chevy Envoy. I thought my '07 ES350's handling was just average or Camry like until I drove these pieces of garbage. The steering in the Mazda particularly wasn't even linear, you turn it a little the wheels turned very little, you turn it a little more and it seemed the car would suddenly realize you were trying to change direction. The Chevy's steering was linear but the shocks, OMG, no wonder folks are afraid of these things rolling. The bounce on the shocks is absurd and reminds me of my mom's car when I was growing up in the '80s. The transmission and power on both is just abysmal. The Chevy made me feel like if I drove it heavy footed all the time something in the drive train would break from the massive torque change from shifting from 1st to 2nd at full throttle as the shift brought the RPMs down from ~6K to ~3K! I think it was a 4 speed transmission - missing two gears! No wonder GM's stock is below $3 a share. The Mazda didn't even idle right by the end of my two days driving it and I didn't drive it differently then my ES350. Granted the two cars I'm using to compare aren't in the same league but price wise I'd expect more from at least the Envoy and I don't find any zoom zoom in the Mazda unless you count the buzz buzz buzzing of the 4 cylinder.

I recently got to drive a buddy's '07 IS250 AWD. I'm not going to go into detail but considering the price vs. performance I think I'd have to consider the corolla first. Seats were uncomfortable, with the 35 series tires the car grabs the crown of the road and pulls you into merging traffic with little warning, my back ached from the bumps after only a 30 minute trip, my hand was cramping from fighting the excessive stearing feedback, and there was no power compared to my ES350. I just smiled politely and handed the keys back with no comment.

My point is compared to the average car the ES350 has a very linear stearing and suspension, smooth shifting trans, and smooth powerful engine. At least that's my experience with my 2007 ES350.

 

^^^ Dude, you compared a mid-sized SUV to the ES? I have an Envoy (its the GMC Envoy or Chevy Trailblazer) and yes it moves like a snail. However, its 3 times heavier and sits a foot taller so what do you expect?

 

Yes, sorry to make such a poor comparison, but I think my point is valid. The ES handling, while not sporty, is very competent - above average. The average Chevy Envoy is not what I'd call competent by today's standards even for an SUV.

I also own a VW Touareg V8 - very competent and it weighs more then the Envoy at 5,300 lbs. I wouldn't call it "average" as it has OEM electronic shock dampening and adjustable ride height air suspension. I could have used that as a comparison but since I was trying to say the ES350 is better then average I wanted to compare it to a common average grocery getter.

Cheers

 

My Honda Ridgeline handles way better than my buddie's Trailblazer. Then you get into SUVs like the BMW X5 (and I assume the Nissan/Infiniti Murano/FX - haven't driven those yet, but I assume they're similar to the BMW). Just cuz it's a porker and sits up high doesn't mean a company can't make it handle decently. It's why crossovers are so popular. When a SUV/Truck is car based, it's much easier to get it to handle better than a truck based one. Since most people don't tow, they really don't need a lot of what's out there.

 

Codex,

Thanks for helping me explain. Also, my VW can tow more then the envoy (7,500 lbs). But then the VW costs about 20-25% more then a envoy. There is the added benefit to feed the US company's money and get something tangible back vs. paying taxes and having uncle sam bail them out (if that ends up happening). But then again, all the business VW does in the US they are going to spend >$1B in the midwest to build a new mfg. facility so I'm not sure that arguement would hold much water either.

Anyway, sorry to go off topic. I was thinking about my ES350 last night, it's been snuggled in the garrage for a week, and just love the way it drives. I haven't had a better ride all things considered. One thing I forgot to mention is the fuel savings with the ES, That thing seems to coast at 55mph and at 65-70 just barely sips the gas at ~34 mpgs for me.

 

The fact that an SUV is truck based does NOT decrease its handling ability. Truck based (frame/rail construction) is inherently stiffer than unibody construction. It should make for better handling but the problem with the Envoy is that the suspension is on the soft side as with most SUVs. Anyway my point is still valid. Comparing a passenger car to an SUV (cross-over or not) is invalid.

 

Even more so when one attempts to compare a luxury car against a non-luxury SUV like the Envoy. In any case--if people are gonna argue that comparing a car to an SUV is fair game...then why don't they compare the ES 350 against a Porsche Cayenne Turbo S and see if the ES can out-handle it?

 

Any car will drive on any twist and turns. it just depends how fast you're going.

 

Fine, whatever. Forget the comparisons about unibody and body on frame suvs. If a body on frame is stiffer, just makes my point better actually.

Anyways, my point is that you can still compare a passenger car to a SUV on handling. Some companies choose to make the handling on their SUV handle well. Some don't care. Just cuz a vehicle is higher up and weighs more doesn't mean it can't handle well. If the company chooses to develop the handling. Might be easier for a company depending on the technology used, but the point is that being high and heavy doesn't mean handling has to go out the window. Stafford was just pointing out that the Envoy sucked in the handling department. Compared to sedans and even other SUVs.

He also mentioned the Mazda 6 as lacking. Maybe that made you happier cuz it's also a sedan like the ES350, but Stafford isn't necessarily wrong to include the Envoy as an example. With vehicles like the X5 and the FX/Murano, you can have SUVs that handle better than some sedans out there. I've driven a few sedans that didn't handle as well as the X5. And the X5 is higher and fatter than those cars. So, just because a vehicle is higher and weighs more doesn't mean it should automatically get a pass in the handling dept.

I just brought up my Ridgeline not to start comparing a suv against another one, but as an example of similar sized vehicle to the Envoy that doesn't handle as badly. Actually, it handles better than quite a few sedans I've driven. And if car companies can make big fat suvs/trucks to handle better than a lot of sedans, then the makers of those sedans need to step it up.

Coming back to the ES350, while the handling is just average, it's not as bad as many other sedans and yes, even other suvs/trucks.