2004 ES330 Vibration issue
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 38
Likes: 8
From: PA
2004 ES330 Vibration issue
Hi all, first of all, many thanks for the thousands of posts and replies in this forum that helped me go this far with my 2004 ES330.
Background:
Purchased this 2004 ES330 at 125K miles 2 months ago from a private seller. I have since replaced:
all 4 stuck brake calipers
both front and back leaky valve cover gaskets
6 NKG iridium spark plugs
transmission fluid flush (using cooler lines) with Vavoline Maxlife ATF
coolant flush with Toyota SLL pink 50/50 mix
I love this car! However, I have had this strange vibration since I purchased it, it's like "thump thump thump" or "whomp whomp whomp" that starts at around 30 mph, detectable from the foot well, floor and front seats, most prominent at the front passenger seat and foot well. It gets faster and more prominent when the car speeds up. It seems to be at the rate of one "thump" or "whomp" per revolution of the wheel. Steering wheel is not shaking, even at 75 mph, although you can also feel the same vibration in the hands. highway speed braking doesn't add more noise or vibration. I have tried the following troubleshooting steps but the noise is still there:
1. Replaced each tire with the brand-new looking full size spare (Michelin tire) then took it out for a test drive
2. torqued all wheel nuts to 76 ft.lb
3. shook the wheels at 3-9 and 6-12 directions, no play
4. replaced both front wheel bearings with Timkin's and new wheel hubs;
5. Inspected tie rod end ball joints, tie rods, CV shaft boots, lower ball joints, all LCA bushings, strut mount rubber seats
6. removed both rear wheels and rotors to inspect rear wheel bearings
The vibration/noise is still here! It's very annoying especially to a person with OCD like myself.
Did any of you encounter this problem and have any idea? The only thing I have not done is jacking up the front end and driving the car to speed using the engine, could this be the CV shafts or passenger side shaft bearing?
Appreciate any thought you may have!
Background:
Purchased this 2004 ES330 at 125K miles 2 months ago from a private seller. I have since replaced:
all 4 stuck brake calipers
both front and back leaky valve cover gaskets
6 NKG iridium spark plugs
transmission fluid flush (using cooler lines) with Vavoline Maxlife ATF
coolant flush with Toyota SLL pink 50/50 mix
I love this car! However, I have had this strange vibration since I purchased it, it's like "thump thump thump" or "whomp whomp whomp" that starts at around 30 mph, detectable from the foot well, floor and front seats, most prominent at the front passenger seat and foot well. It gets faster and more prominent when the car speeds up. It seems to be at the rate of one "thump" or "whomp" per revolution of the wheel. Steering wheel is not shaking, even at 75 mph, although you can also feel the same vibration in the hands. highway speed braking doesn't add more noise or vibration. I have tried the following troubleshooting steps but the noise is still there:
1. Replaced each tire with the brand-new looking full size spare (Michelin tire) then took it out for a test drive
2. torqued all wheel nuts to 76 ft.lb
3. shook the wheels at 3-9 and 6-12 directions, no play
4. replaced both front wheel bearings with Timkin's and new wheel hubs;
5. Inspected tie rod end ball joints, tie rods, CV shaft boots, lower ball joints, all LCA bushings, strut mount rubber seats
6. removed both rear wheels and rotors to inspect rear wheel bearings
The vibration/noise is still here! It's very annoying especially to a person with OCD like myself.
Did any of you encounter this problem and have any idea? The only thing I have not done is jacking up the front end and driving the car to speed using the engine, could this be the CV shafts or passenger side shaft bearing?
Appreciate any thought you may have!
Pole Position
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,466
Likes: 920
From: wa
Very surprised the bearings didn't get it because that description is spot on for one way a bad front bearing presents.
To double check it's still not a bearing (very unlikely if you put in a whole timken hub/bearing assembly), with the wheels lifted grasp a coil of the spring in your hand and then spin the wheel. If you feel vibration, that's usually a bearing. It can present that way and still be tight at the 3-9/6-12 drill.
The only other thing that pops to mind is perhaps a bad upper mount. I must imagine this car saw A LOT of rough roads because that level of repair/replacement indicates it; things that lasted until 250k on our car which saw mostly smooth highway miles (bearings, ball joints) apparently when 1/2 that distance on that car. If so, then a bad mount already is not a surprise.
You can put in a "quick strut" - if so I recommend KYB and not anything else. On these and camry's there is a tendency for the replacement bearing to not last as long as it should, also (even w/KYB). If your shocks are good, you can get an OE upper mount and then take out the strut and replace just that part. If you do the quick strut route, you'll need an alignment afterwards. If so, you may want to do the lower ball joints and tie rod ends just to done with the whole front end before the alignment. Sometimes RockAuto has phenomenal deals on good parts.
To double check it's still not a bearing (very unlikely if you put in a whole timken hub/bearing assembly), with the wheels lifted grasp a coil of the spring in your hand and then spin the wheel. If you feel vibration, that's usually a bearing. It can present that way and still be tight at the 3-9/6-12 drill.
The only other thing that pops to mind is perhaps a bad upper mount. I must imagine this car saw A LOT of rough roads because that level of repair/replacement indicates it; things that lasted until 250k on our car which saw mostly smooth highway miles (bearings, ball joints) apparently when 1/2 that distance on that car. If so, then a bad mount already is not a surprise.
You can put in a "quick strut" - if so I recommend KYB and not anything else. On these and camry's there is a tendency for the replacement bearing to not last as long as it should, also (even w/KYB). If your shocks are good, you can get an OE upper mount and then take out the strut and replace just that part. If you do the quick strut route, you'll need an alignment afterwards. If so, you may want to do the lower ball joints and tie rod ends just to done with the whole front end before the alignment. Sometimes RockAuto has phenomenal deals on good parts.
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 38
Likes: 8
From: PA
Thanks Oro! The struts and mounts were replaced at 100k mile mark by the previous owner (with receipt). And now I don’t even think the wheel bearings were bad since I found a lot of grease in the old bearings after pulling the hubs off and race surfacea were all smooth and shiny. The more i read on internet and watch on YouTube, the more I believe it’s the cv axles. I have literally become a parts changer! Sad but true.
Thanks for the advice! I’m looking forward to any other ideas.
Thanks for the advice! I’m looking forward to any other ideas.
Pole Position
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,466
Likes: 920
From: wa
Actually, the fact the struts were replaced makes it MORE likely they are the next thing to investigate, not less.
What were they replaced with? Brand and full assembly, or just cartridge? Have you checked the torque on the upper strut mount(s)?
It is hard to suspect an axle unless one is clearly a replacement or damaged. Changing shocks at 100k again implies some really severe duty, but the axles are relatively isolated from the wear and tear that goes along with that. Shocks, mounts, end links and ball joints are going to take the abuse.
What were they replaced with? Brand and full assembly, or just cartridge? Have you checked the torque on the upper strut mount(s)?
It is hard to suspect an axle unless one is clearly a replacement or damaged. Changing shocks at 100k again implies some really severe duty, but the axles are relatively isolated from the wear and tear that goes along with that. Shocks, mounts, end links and ball joints are going to take the abuse.
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 600
Likes: 32
From: W-NY
Gents,
axels can be rather sneaky - that is, seem “fine” and not be, and as a result be the last thing focused on. I have heard many stories and even experienced my self trying many things and finally just doing axels and finding that that was it. Wouldn’t strut relared components act up on road condition, not cyclical/speed based? Even if strut related components were reacting cyclically, it would be a result of something else, not just the road, so that “something else” would need to be addressed as well to solve the issue.
We are dealing with this same issue (only it’s 60mph) in our Odyssey, 2009 113,000. All good suspension, tie rods ball joints bearings. Tires balanced/rims ok. Axels took away ALOT of the problem, but guess what is left and absolutely the issue? Motor mounts ($1400 worth, so I’m researching a better solution - probably non-hydraulic as VCM is shut down). So don’t write those off either.
I am as picky as they come, so I get it. Hope you find it
axels can be rather sneaky - that is, seem “fine” and not be, and as a result be the last thing focused on. I have heard many stories and even experienced my self trying many things and finally just doing axels and finding that that was it. Wouldn’t strut relared components act up on road condition, not cyclical/speed based? Even if strut related components were reacting cyclically, it would be a result of something else, not just the road, so that “something else” would need to be addressed as well to solve the issue.
We are dealing with this same issue (only it’s 60mph) in our Odyssey, 2009 113,000. All good suspension, tie rods ball joints bearings. Tires balanced/rims ok. Axels took away ALOT of the problem, but guess what is left and absolutely the issue? Motor mounts ($1400 worth, so I’m researching a better solution - probably non-hydraulic as VCM is shut down). So don’t write those off either.
I am as picky as they come, so I get it. Hope you find it
Last edited by acarapella; Feb 7, 2018 at 07:06 AM.
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 38
Likes: 8
From: PA
Hi Oro, the replacement struts/mounts are Monroe. I know it's not a top brand, but at least it should last 25k miles shouldn't they? Also based on other posts, bad struts don't explain the rhythmic noise/vibration that coordinates with the wheel speed. Thanks for the advice as always!
Actually, the fact the struts were replaced makes it MORE likely they are the next thing to investigate, not less.
What were they replaced with? Brand and full assembly, or just cartridge? Have you checked the torque on the upper strut mount(s)?
It is hard to suspect an axle unless one is clearly a replacement or damaged. Changing shocks at 100k again implies some really severe duty, but the axles are relatively isolated from the wear and tear that goes along with that. Shocks, mounts, end links and ball joints are going to take the abuse.
What were they replaced with? Brand and full assembly, or just cartridge? Have you checked the torque on the upper strut mount(s)?
It is hard to suspect an axle unless one is clearly a replacement or damaged. Changing shocks at 100k again implies some really severe duty, but the axles are relatively isolated from the wear and tear that goes along with that. Shocks, mounts, end links and ball joints are going to take the abuse.
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 38
Likes: 8
From: PA
Acarapella, it certainly feels that way, I have replaced the usual suspects (wheel bearings, hubs, rotated/substituted wheels) to no avail, CV and struts/mounts are my last 2 things to replace. If there's anything wrong in the transmission such as differential bearing, it'd be beyond my skill set. So, I took my chance and ordered 2 Car Quest new CV shafts (not reman units) from advance auto parts, hopefully they will get rid of the noise/vib, if not, I just have 2 new axles, for less than $150 parts only. I will report back. Meantime, please, someone else who had gone through this provide your stories and experience?
Thank you all!
Thank you all!
Gents,
axels can be rather sneaky - that is, seem “fine” and not be, and as a result be the last thing focused on. I have heard many stories and even experienced my self trying many things and finally just doing axels and finding that that was it. Wouldn’t strut relared components act up on road condition, not cyclical/speed based? Even if strut related components were reacting cyclically, it would be a result of something else, not just the road, so that “something else” would need to be addressed as well to solve the issue.
We are dealing with this same issue (only it’s 60mph) in our Odyssey, 2009 113,000. All good suspension, tie rods ball joints bearings. Tires balanced/rims ok. Axels took away ALOT of the problem, but guess what is left and absolutely the issue? Motor mounts ($1400 worth, so I’m researching a better solution - probably non-hydraulic as VCM is shut down). So don’t write those off either.
I am as picky as they come, so I get it. Hope you find it
axels can be rather sneaky - that is, seem “fine” and not be, and as a result be the last thing focused on. I have heard many stories and even experienced my self trying many things and finally just doing axels and finding that that was it. Wouldn’t strut relared components act up on road condition, not cyclical/speed based? Even if strut related components were reacting cyclically, it would be a result of something else, not just the road, so that “something else” would need to be addressed as well to solve the issue.
We are dealing with this same issue (only it’s 60mph) in our Odyssey, 2009 113,000. All good suspension, tie rods ball joints bearings. Tires balanced/rims ok. Axels took away ALOT of the problem, but guess what is left and absolutely the issue? Motor mounts ($1400 worth, so I’m researching a better solution - probably non-hydraulic as VCM is shut down). So don’t write those off either.
I am as picky as they come, so I get it. Hope you find it
Trending Topics
Pole Position
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,466
Likes: 920
From: wa
It is fairly common for Monroe upper strut mounts to fail quickly, and easily within 25k or much less. You can find examples of this at Toyota Nation or other forums all day long.
Having a known problem part now in the equation with a high failure rate makes that the first place to check. My comments are that looking at it first is the most rational approach, not that it is impossible that it is an axle. It is just that once you tease out a complete history, its less likely looking at the whole story. Simply checking its installation would be a starting point. The mount includes a roller bearing assembly just like the wheel bearing, just mounted horizontally wrt the wheel bearing. I get the feeling this is not appreciated when discussing the strut.
Having a known problem part now in the equation with a high failure rate makes that the first place to check. My comments are that looking at it first is the most rational approach, not that it is impossible that it is an axle. It is just that once you tease out a complete history, its less likely looking at the whole story. Simply checking its installation would be a starting point. The mount includes a roller bearing assembly just like the wheel bearing, just mounted horizontally wrt the wheel bearing. I get the feeling this is not appreciated when discussing the strut.
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 38
Likes: 8
From: PA
I know the mounts are important, as I replaced struts and mounts on my 2005 Sienna FWD. Since I will have the front suspension undone anyway, I will also remove the strut assemblies to inspect. What should I be looking for on the mounts? extra play or rotational noise? Before I compress the springs and undo the whole assembly, if that's sufficient, I can avoid having to reassemble the springs and all. Thanks!
It is fairly common for Monroe upper strut mounts to fail quickly, and easily within 25k or much less. You can find examples of this at Toyota Nation or other forums all day long.
Having a known problem part now in the equation with a high failure rate makes that the first place to check. My comments are that looking at it first is the most rational approach, not that it is impossible that it is an axle. It is just that once you tease out a complete history, its less likely looking at the whole story. Simply checking its installation would be a starting point. The mount includes a roller bearing assembly just like the wheel bearing, just mounted horizontally wrt the wheel bearing. I get the feeling this is not appreciated when discussing the strut.
Having a known problem part now in the equation with a high failure rate makes that the first place to check. My comments are that looking at it first is the most rational approach, not that it is impossible that it is an axle. It is just that once you tease out a complete history, its less likely looking at the whole story. Simply checking its installation would be a starting point. The mount includes a roller bearing assembly just like the wheel bearing, just mounted horizontally wrt the wheel bearing. I get the feeling this is not appreciated when discussing the strut.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 132
From: Toronto, Canada
I had a similar thump/whoop sound that increased with speed on my Camry recently. It was intermittent and caused a slight vibration on the highway.
Turned out to be a stuck rear caliper. I retracted and compressed the caliper a few times and that worked it loose.
One check for this is when you walk around the car after a highway run, touch all four calipers by hand - if its too hot then its sticking.
Turned out to be a stuck rear caliper. I retracted and compressed the caliper a few times and that worked it loose.
One check for this is when you walk around the car after a highway run, touch all four calipers by hand - if its too hot then its sticking.
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 38
Likes: 8
From: PA
Great point! Right after I purchased the car, I noticed this rubbing sound coming from my rear brakes, it turned out to be stuck sliding pins which made it impossible to remove the caliper from the brackets, so I had to replace the entire caliper/bracket (on all four wheels), apparently this is a very common problem on Toyota/Lexus because of a poor design of the dust boots (too short). I have had multiple opportunities to check/recheck the replacement calipers, they are moving freely. So brakes are not the cause of my noise/vibration. But this is a very valid point, thanks!
I had a similar thump/whoop sound that increased with speed on my Camry recently. It was intermittent and caused a slight vibration on the highway.
Turned out to be a stuck rear caliper. I retracted and compressed the caliper a few times and that worked it loose.
One check for this is when you walk around the car after a highway run, touch all four calipers by hand - if its too hot then its sticking.
Turned out to be a stuck rear caliper. I retracted and compressed the caliper a few times and that worked it loose.
One check for this is when you walk around the car after a highway run, touch all four calipers by hand - if its too hot then its sticking.
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 38
Likes: 8
From: PA
Guys, a related question:
Which CV axle should I get (will go with brand-new, not reman.):
1. Advance Auto Parts' CarQuest
2. Napa's Maxdrive
3. Rockauto's Cardone Select with heavy duty outboard boot
Which CV axle should I get (will go with brand-new, not reman.):
1. Advance Auto Parts' CarQuest
2. Napa's Maxdrive
3. Rockauto's Cardone Select with heavy duty outboard boot
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 600
Likes: 32
From: W-NY
I am learning that many aftermarket parts suck, which begs the question why they bother to be in business. Never imagined Monroe isn’t good. Anchor motor mounts last 6-12months in my odyssey, per several owners of them. Crazy. That said, my odyssey just got no name lifetime warranty axels from nuway. That way if there is an issue, it’s $0. Advance would be the easiest warranty swap. if you want it to last 150,000, sadly it seems it’s the lexus dealer only.
As as for the calipers, been there, done that with the old (gone) solara. What sucks is that it means pads at least if not rotors too. Had it happen to a 2010 Camry I used to own
As as for the calipers, been there, done that with the old (gone) solara. What sucks is that it means pads at least if not rotors too. Had it happen to a 2010 Camry I used to own