Lowering an ES330
Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
Lowering an ES330
Hi boys, I am making the decision to lower my car. I have been shopping for lowering springs and I want your honest opinion. Plus I really need help cause I'm sort of clueless. I was quoted $225 from one of the CL vendors, but found some Tanabe springs for $188 elsewhere, I guess that's a no brainer.
Basically I'm not sure whether to get the Tanabe NF210s or the DF210s. I'm afraid if it's too lowered my car will suffer from the bad roads in South Jersey/Philly. What do you guys think? Plus what is the typical labor charge to put these on?
Thank you!
Basically I'm not sure whether to get the Tanabe NF210s or the DF210s. I'm afraid if it's too lowered my car will suffer from the bad roads in South Jersey/Philly. What do you guys think? Plus what is the typical labor charge to put these on?
Thank you!
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,245
Likes: 9
From: Illinois
I have entertained the thought as well. The only thing holding me back is that once you lower it, You loose the extremely smooth and comfortable ride of the car. Book time calls for 2 hours for the front springs, And 2.6 hours for the rear springs. Depending on your local shops labor rate most shops are probly anywhere between $80-$100/hr.....
with the high design of the bumper and body panels, i would highly doubt any aftermarket springs will lower the body/frame to the point of demolition of the vehicle. im going to take a guess, and say that factory height of the vehicle is probably near 8". if you get aftermarket springs, the most aggressive drop will probably be no more than 2.5".
also, keep in mind, whenever you switch out factory springs for aftermarket, it is best to also replace the factory struts, as they will blow due to the stiffer new aftermarket springs. save the hassle, and replace everything at one time.
Charley
also, keep in mind, whenever you switch out factory springs for aftermarket, it is best to also replace the factory struts, as they will blow due to the stiffer new aftermarket springs. save the hassle, and replace everything at one time.
Charley
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 63
Likes: 1
From: Hawaii
Got the NF installed last sunday. I was in same situation between the DF and NF. I went with the NFs because the some of potholes here are kiddie pool size. I'm happy with the drop. Prior to the drop, the front wheel gap was four fingers, now its down to two. BTW, i'm asian so my hands are kinda small, 4 fingers=2.5 inches. (Bring on the jokes guys!)
The ride is suprisingly smooth and driving into turns is amazing. My passengers can really tell the difference. We don't have any straight roads here, so with the new springs, my buddies are no longer sliding in thier seats. Bumps will be more pronounced and I've caught myself slowing down on some bumps that were disregarded in the past.
Overall, i'm happy with the springs.
The ride is suprisingly smooth and driving into turns is amazing. My passengers can really tell the difference. We don't have any straight roads here, so with the new springs, my buddies are no longer sliding in thier seats. Bumps will be more pronounced and I've caught myself slowing down on some bumps that were disregarded in the past.
Overall, i'm happy with the springs.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: NV
LexGrl,
If it helps, below are some pics of my ES before and after a drop with the NF210's. This is with '05-'06 ES330 wheels which you have so it'll give you a good idea of what it'll look like.
Before
After
If it helps, below are some pics of my ES before and after a drop with the NF210's. This is with '05-'06 ES330 wheels which you have so it'll give you a good idea of what it'll look like.
Before
After
Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
hmmm, thanks for all your comments guys, it's really really helpful. I will take all of your suggestions to heart and run with it...
Charley - thanks for chiming in, can you recommend a good set of struts for me? Everyone is putting the kyb ones right?
Sittinlow & lexus - I'll do the same and go with the NFs.
J - I called my local shop and he quoted me $500, I guess that's reasonable based on what you said.
I'm going to order the parts this week, but probably won't put them on until after my vacation....woohoo...I'm so excited. Seeing everyone's car on CL motivates me to make changes.
Charley - thanks for chiming in, can you recommend a good set of struts for me? Everyone is putting the kyb ones right?
Sittinlow & lexus - I'll do the same and go with the NFs.
J - I called my local shop and he quoted me $500, I guess that's reasonable based on what you said.
I'm going to order the parts this week, but probably won't put them on until after my vacation....woohoo...I'm so excited. Seeing everyone's car on CL motivates me to make changes.
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Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
From: ca
wow, sorry to barge in but damn $500 for changing the springs, i have an sc430 and i got my springs for 160(tein s.tech) and did the drop for 50 bucks at the local shop. woah you are paying way too much. plz do youself the favor and shop aound...ps. try tire stores, youd be surprised
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Driver School Candidate
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: CA
I have an '05 330 as well. I just recently bought the NF210s for $217+shipping from optionimports.com. The shop I'm having them installed said it would be $160 for the labor. So that's about 400 and some change INCLUDING parts and labor, just to give you an idea.
Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
Thanks 3.3L! That does help. Question tho, you are not replacing your struts? I really don't want to have to go in there again to replace the struts if the new springs are going to wear out the stock struts. But I think you will be the second (first would be sittinlow) that is putting the tanabe NFs on stock struts that I have heard from....I'm all about saving money to get the same results.
Thanks 3.3L! That does help. Question tho, you are not replacing your struts? I really don't want to have to go in there again to replace the struts if the new springs are going to wear out the stock struts. But I think you will be the second (first would be sittinlow) that is putting the tanabe NFs on stock struts that I have heard from....I'm all about saving money to get the same results.
Originally Posted by Keith13b
For obvious reasons; the springs are stiffer. So they will tear apart a set of stock struts.
I had a friend (with an RX-7) that put a front coil over adaptor kit onto his factory struts and dropped in #400 front springs. Needless to say the struts didn't last one autocross. He blew them both out within two runs!
Always upgrade the springs/struts as a set. Kinda like spark plugs; do one - do 'em all!!
Keith
P.S. For those that don't understand; the stronger spring will simply pull the strut back a lot quicker than a softer spring, so its that violent return to expanded state that ruptures seals and what not. The strut needs to be able to handle the spring weight when it returns. In racing applications, springs an struts are sold in weight ranges.
I had a friend (with an RX-7) that put a front coil over adaptor kit onto his factory struts and dropped in #400 front springs. Needless to say the struts didn't last one autocross. He blew them both out within two runs!
Always upgrade the springs/struts as a set. Kinda like spark plugs; do one - do 'em all!!
Keith
P.S. For those that don't understand; the stronger spring will simply pull the strut back a lot quicker than a softer spring, so its that violent return to expanded state that ruptures seals and what not. The strut needs to be able to handle the spring weight when it returns. In racing applications, springs an struts are sold in weight ranges.
The stiffer springs can travel the same distance, they are merely stronger, so, under exact conditions, they compress and re-rebound at a much quicker rate (hence the harsher ride). Remember it simply takes more energy to compress a stiffer spring, but they will still travel the same distance. I think you might be confusing energy absorbtion of the strut and spring compression. If your spring rate doesn't match your dampener (strut) rate, then you have an unstable suspension. The dampening rate needs to match the spring weight so both can function together as a whole. One will take the initial blow (spring), the other brings everything back to normal at a controled rate (strut). If they don't match, then you're in for one hell of a harsh ride because you are not dampening the car with both the shock and the spring. Both elements are key. Your spring is trying to work within its parameters, and the strut is doing something totally diferent. If the strut can't balance it out, you have an unsafe, unbalanced, bumpy ride.
Example: If you are making many hard left and right hand turns consecutively, you can slowly jack down the cars suspension down because the dampening system can not correct itself in time for the next turn. A few turns later, you have jacked down and compressed the dampening system (struts/springs) and you are riding on bumpstops. Now, the next turn or bump you encounter, you will have no suspension travel and you will most likely lose control of your vehicle.
Stiffer springs and stronger struts will prevent this from occuring. If you get a matched pair, you will have considerably better handeling, with a slight loss of ride smoothness. Mismatch the dampening system and you could knock your molars out! Many people don't research their suspension. They just want to lower their car, so they get sport springs without understanding how everything works together. They don't realize that the whole system needs to be adjusted, not just the springs.
For every day use....it really doesn't matter. Its mainy for hi performance, spirited driving; or if you like to race. I would never change just the springs and leave the stock struts then then try to haul @ss on an on ramp. Thats asking for disaster. The car would most likely handle better with the stock suspension.
If you're going to do it, do it right. Change out springs and struts and your ride won't be so bad. It will still be considerably stiffer than stock, but nothing out of reason.
Hope this helps,
Keith
Example: If you are making many hard left and right hand turns consecutively, you can slowly jack down the cars suspension down because the dampening system can not correct itself in time for the next turn. A few turns later, you have jacked down and compressed the dampening system (struts/springs) and you are riding on bumpstops. Now, the next turn or bump you encounter, you will have no suspension travel and you will most likely lose control of your vehicle.
Stiffer springs and stronger struts will prevent this from occuring. If you get a matched pair, you will have considerably better handeling, with a slight loss of ride smoothness. Mismatch the dampening system and you could knock your molars out! Many people don't research their suspension. They just want to lower their car, so they get sport springs without understanding how everything works together. They don't realize that the whole system needs to be adjusted, not just the springs.
For every day use....it really doesn't matter. Its mainy for hi performance, spirited driving; or if you like to race. I would never change just the springs and leave the stock struts then then try to haul @ss on an on ramp. Thats asking for disaster. The car would most likely handle better with the stock suspension.
If you're going to do it, do it right. Change out springs and struts and your ride won't be so bad. It will still be considerably stiffer than stock, but nothing out of reason.
Hope this helps,
Keith
Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
hmm, very interesting. I have so much to learn. I have no idea where to begin then 
I really want to do it right for a reasonable amount of money. The struts alone will be ~$400, plus $200 for the springs. Plus I'm still searching for someone to help me put them on. I will go ahead and delay this project a few more weeks so I can do it right. So now the question is will the tanabe springs and a set of kyb struts be the right match for my car? Why is each strut a different price and what are gas struts?
Sorry for all the questions, this is so new to me. Thanks so much guys for all your comments, you guys are awesome!
I really want to do it right for a reasonable amount of money. The struts alone will be ~$400, plus $200 for the springs. Plus I'm still searching for someone to help me put them on. I will go ahead and delay this project a few more weeks so I can do it right. So now the question is will the tanabe springs and a set of kyb struts be the right match for my car? Why is each strut a different price and what are gas struts? Sorry for all the questions, this is so new to me. Thanks so much guys for all your comments, you guys are awesome!
Hey, questions are what this site is for! Any of us that've installed a new system (suspension, exhaust, etc.) have had to go through the exact same research, anxiety and expense. No worries.
Here's an excellent article to help bring folks up to speed on suspension systems in general: "How Car Suspensions Work" for starters. This will also help explain the concepts of "gas shocks," "struts" and the other myriad strange parts.
I found, when researching struts for my car(s), that there are different part numbers for each strut at each corner. I didn't find a unique price for each one, but the fronts and the rears were priced differently.
Your install prices are going to vary by region, installer activity, and maybe by what he/she thinks you'll pay when you walk in the door. There's no set price for the industry, so I found it alternately encouraging and discouraging when casting a net and trying to determine a "fair" price. I feel your pain. I ended up chatting with folks in my area and finding the most reputable installer I could find; someone who would warranty their work, and who wouldn't likely be closed down 6 months later (you never know, but there are some indicators).
On the brand of struts for purchase, determine what brands are POSSIBLE for your car. Then search the sites for any reviews. This is going to be as much fun for you as it was for me with my 2nd gen. There just haven't been that many modded ESs, especially 4th gens. You get the honor and privilege of being a pioneer.
KYB does have an excellent reputation and track record on this board, for what it's worth.
Good luck. You might as well use this thread to log your research, work and pictures. This information will likely become a reference for future ES330 owners when they embark on the same task. You're taking it slow and methodically, so your chances of regret are less and less.
Here's an excellent article to help bring folks up to speed on suspension systems in general: "How Car Suspensions Work" for starters. This will also help explain the concepts of "gas shocks," "struts" and the other myriad strange parts.
I found, when researching struts for my car(s), that there are different part numbers for each strut at each corner. I didn't find a unique price for each one, but the fronts and the rears were priced differently.
Your install prices are going to vary by region, installer activity, and maybe by what he/she thinks you'll pay when you walk in the door. There's no set price for the industry, so I found it alternately encouraging and discouraging when casting a net and trying to determine a "fair" price. I feel your pain. I ended up chatting with folks in my area and finding the most reputable installer I could find; someone who would warranty their work, and who wouldn't likely be closed down 6 months later (you never know, but there are some indicators).
On the brand of struts for purchase, determine what brands are POSSIBLE for your car. Then search the sites for any reviews. This is going to be as much fun for you as it was for me with my 2nd gen. There just haven't been that many modded ESs, especially 4th gens. You get the honor and privilege of being a pioneer.
KYB does have an excellent reputation and track record on this board, for what it's worth. Good luck. You might as well use this thread to log your research, work and pictures. This information will likely become a reference for future ES330 owners when they embark on the same task. You're taking it slow and methodically, so your chances of regret are less and less.
hmm, very interesting. I have so much to learn. I have no idea where to begin then I really want to do it right for a reasonable amount of money. The struts alone will be ~$400, plus $200 for the springs. Plus I'm still searching for someone to help me put them on. I will go ahead and delay this project a few more weeks so I can do it right. So now the question is will the tanabe springs and a set of kyb struts be the right match for my car? Why is each strut a different price and what are gas struts?
Sorry for all the questions, this is so new to me. Thanks so much guys for all your comments, you guys are awesome!
I really want to do it right for a reasonable amount of money. The struts alone will be ~$400, plus $200 for the springs. Plus I'm still searching for someone to help me put them on. I will go ahead and delay this project a few more weeks so I can do it right. So now the question is will the tanabe springs and a set of kyb struts be the right match for my car? Why is each strut a different price and what are gas struts? Sorry for all the questions, this is so new to me. Thanks so much guys for all your comments, you guys are awesome!