This is widespread for sure, my newer car is the only 1 of 4 I have seen aligned and even it's driver door is slightly off.

And then look at the states listed, as well as Canada where this is present and JJ's comment about looking at 2 on the lot. I guarantee a memo went out on this if they saw pics posted by SDL that is. This may play a role in road noise complaints and when worse in wind noise complaints.
CA
WA
BC
AL
FL
NJ

 

Still a short list vs. 60,000+ units sold. One could make the case that if it were more widespread, more people would be seeking out a forum like this to see if others have the same issue.

 

I don't believe people just seek out a forum for a vehicle issue and if they did many didn't acknowledge they had this issue until one posted on the subject, even I didn't post on it as it was so commonplace from my observations though I checked both loaners I had just to see and they had it too. Also a lady who goes to same restaurant now that I am thinking of it, so that makes 5 total cars just for me in FL in my area.

Good news is it is a minor thing as far as adjustment to correct it, though I am very curious if it plays a role in wind noise or road noise.

On my new black car the chrome pops so nicely you'd want it on or it is even more noticeable.

 

We'll never know how many people have particular problems with this car. We shouldn't dismiss those that do have issues though and try make it sound like they're only part of a small group that have those problems. If that is anyones position, back it up with some hard numbers.

I've been here since Jan 06 posting and waiting for the ES350 to launch. I know many of the members here who were also doing the same thing. I've seen all the issues described on this vehicle here to date, as well as having owned one since they were released. I've seen the poll here - and voted - about the problems I have with solutions where possible. I've driven a number of ES350 vehicles now (4) - as other members have as loaners - and I'm yet to find a problem free one that doesn't have some of the issues in that poll.

ES350Bob is on his second car. Ask him if its problem free. Ask other members who are on their second car.

I'm sure there are problem free vehicles - there has to be. But when our own poll shows only ~33% as being problem free, that number is telling. These aren't people who just joined and polled in many cases, they're people like me that were here for a long time and discovered many of these problems when they first occured. From my experience having driven these vehicles, it is difficult to find one that is perfect. I haven't found a car like this yet.

 

For what it's worth, my windows line up perfect (8/06) and no wind noise.

 

Wanderer,

It is thanks to people like you posting and others that my former car was not more alarming to me than it was.

I also know that as a former owner of a manufacturing company I'd LOVE this type of forum on my product because I could see right away things that need adjustment before it got too out of hand and I'd see the things people love about my product. Toyota adjusted their software for Toyotas and the reporter mentioned it was because of a forum(s) like this on the internet. The jaws dropped on the door alignment for sure for any officials who saw that on here.

You hang in there where more serious issues are concerned as I am determined to come up with a solution for the wind noise many suffer. It will take some time though to compare and contrast and come up with something to post for others to try to see if I came up with anything viable. My doors are better this car as to alignment and I am comfortable saying it did cause a noticeable difference in surrounding sounds intruding like other car noise etc. including louder motorcycles going down road and that type of thing.

Not yet ready or enough time or miles to report on wind or engine or other but I promise I will on everything so it helps us all I hope.

Wait, yes there is, no veering steering....woohooo, that was annoying as heck on my other one and will road test newer on severe crowned road and report back too, haven't gotten over to that road in the new one yet but will in next weeks.

 

I'm not sure I agree with this statement. I think there are a lot of factors you need to consider. First of all, not everyone is Internet-literate. Second, even for those who are Internet literate, a lot don't use the Internet to its fullest extent like many of us do. Take my mom, for example. She drives an LS430. She is a sharp business woman, uses a computer every day, sends e-mails, looks things up on the Internet, etc. I can guarantee 2 things: (1) if she had a wind noise or diesel clatter issue, she wouldn't notice it; and (2) even if she did notice it, there is no way she would seek out a forum like this to discuss the issue with others online. Instead, she would simply take it to the dealer and let them deal with it.

I do think that the percentage of 33% problem free cars is very telling. I believe CL, generally, is a good sample of what's going on out there. It's just that I don't think you can define the universe as 60,000 units and then compare that number to the number of complaints on CL and conclude that the percentage of problematic cars is relatively low.

 

That's my original point. A total of 147 people participated in the survey, of them, 112 reported issues. That's only .185% of the total ES units sold YTD. A small percentage. I agree, nothing is perfect, especially cars and trucks.

 

I see your point. But I'm thinking CL is a good composite of the users that are out there in general and do represent the 60,000 owners. I was here as I'm an original owner before any of these issues ever really surfaced, with the exception of the trans dying issue. I didn't look for this forum to try to solve my problems - I was already here.

I tend to look at this another way: say Dell sold 60,000 computers. There is an online forum dedicated to Dell lovers. We're so excited we got our Dells. Then we had a poll where 112 of us reported issues from the 147 owners of the new Dell computers. Statistically I'd then summarize that potentially 112 out of every 147 owners may have problems. If you apply that to the 60,000 you get 45,700 computers that may have a problem. Some of us went to try other samples of the Dell computers - and found the same types of problems present to one degree or another. I'm sure the 35 Dell owners in the forum are happy with their Computer, but that leaves 112 of us to solve our issues. Some Dell owners reported that their cars were fine - and later report that they're having issues now as well. So that 112 may even be higher than what it appears.

I think CL is a great indicator of real world ownership and the issues and problems associated with it, as well as the fixes to those problems. I thought I was crazy and alone in that I could hear wind noise in my car, or that my trans was slipping, or that I had rattles amongst other things. This forum proves I'm not alone in this experience and that I'm not crazy.

Another great reason to not think that its only 112 owners who have issues is to simply read this thread. This will tell you how only 160 Toyota Camrys have trans issues. And we all now know how accurate that number was.

 

Just like with cold start RPM spike, I had it probably from the start and was not aware it was a problem until I visited and read more about it on this forum. Now, I'm driving with a new tranny... And just like that, in 3 month of owning my car I didn't know that my driver side doors were misaligned. I looked at it probably hundreds of times, but never noticed it. And I usually pay very close attention to details. Passenger side doors are OK, but driver side is noticeable "now" Not a big deal, will be taken care off at 5k service. So the point in here is how many thousands of ES350 drivers are simply not aware of these issues?!?!? Also keep in mind, a lot of the problems are relative comparison to what other cars you have driven before or have experience with.

 

Or maybe more realistically, there are vehicles with problems relatively/fairly minor that they're not worth debating about. Give me any typical consumer vehicle that I can physically look over, and I bet I can find something that someone--not necessarily myself--would complain about. My point is that there are many people who won't bother reporting minor problems--especially those that won't adversely affect overall vehicle (resale) value and/or performance...and there are some people who for them, nothing short of perfection is acceptable.

 

Your point is proven by this post, so many did not realize the doors could be aligned that they thought that was the way they were supposed to be whether or not they did or did not contribute to other complaints like road noise, wind noise or external other sound intrusion. In this case though it is something that can be addressed relatively easy, not so with wind noise, engine noise and transmission many vehicles have as issues. With so many different issues affecting numerous vehicles this is a lax approach to quality control revealing itself.

 

Well said, toneman...

 

The answer in my experiences to your question is YES. Certainly on outside sound intrusion like passing vehicles, motorcycle noise, vehicles next to your's with loud music etc. and my newer car with aligned doors, for all intents and purposes, has less wind noise than former which had door(s) out by a country mile to use an expression.

 

I own a UL ES and drove a Non UL ES as a loaner. I noticed the wind noise on the loaner car was greater by far. Not sure if the design in the non glass roof models have anything to do with it?