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Front mount? Various issues

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Old 07-14-18, 11:55 AM
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acarapella
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Default Front mount? Various issues

Hey all,




ive been suspecting my front mount for some time. Here are some issues:




I feel the motor a tiny bit more than one would expect in an ES




Shifts feel like a person driving stick that waits too long to shift. When turning the corner really slow (in first) and then coming out, sometimes the car will of course go back into first. When it does, it feels like I put my foot to the floor. A dramatic shift when Under probably 7% throttle I should experience much less of a delay and then lunge. Shifting literally feels loose. I know u150e is not supposed to feel like a dual clutch in a Porsche, nor would I want it to, but this is just too lazy/ loose feeling.




I rarely, I mean rarely, use AC, but we did a lot on a 650 mile trip and I can feel the AC compressor lock on and off. This is simply to identify. It feels like a misfire or skip, but is only when the ac is on... it’s the clutch kicking in. I gather that I only feel it because perhaps my front mount is worn.







Anyone ever had all these symptoms and seen them gone with a new front mount? Also would go OEM for sure, wondering where I can get one cheap.




Thanks all








Old 07-15-18, 11:41 PM
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Oro
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Originally Posted by acarapella
I feel the motor a tiny bit more than one would expect in an ES

Shifts feel like a person driving stick that waits too long to shift. When turning the corner really slow (in first) and then coming out, sometimes the car will of course go back into first. When it does, it feels like I put my foot to the floor. A dramatic shift when Under probably 7% throttle I should experience much less of a delay and then lunge. Shifting literally feels loose. I know u150e is not supposed to feel like a dual clutch in a Porsche, nor would I want it to, but this is just too lazy/ loose feeling.


Sounds like a U150e. It is known for lag issues. There was actually a factory code revision for it because it annoyed people so much. I recommend not running down that rabbit hole of alteration but learning to live with it or adapt your throttle action. It will in fact learn/adapt to your input and become less of an issue if you input more smoothly.

I rarely, I mean rarely, use AC, but we did a lot on a 650 mile trip and I can feel the AC compressor lock on and off. This is simply to identify. It feels like a misfire or skip, but is only when the ac is on... it’s the clutch kicking in. I gather that I only feel it because perhaps my front mount is worn.
The 3.0l just doesn't have enough reciprocating mass to cancel out the a/c drag. We all feel it. Sounds normal. Bigger engines hide it better. Things in the class won't hide it well unless there is sophisticated hydraulic dampening, which is not unheard of, but not on these cars. These are just Toyota Camry V6's with a little better build quality and a really nice interior. They are not, IMO, real "luxury" vehicles as the phrases should be used. Don't over-expect and then they won't under-deliver. That said, I keep the cc in 'auto' mode all the time, but except at stone idle, I don't feel it much. So perhaps you do have an issue somewhere...

Anyone ever had all these symptoms and seen them gone with a new front mount? Also would go OEM for sure, wondering where I can get one cheap.
Open the hood, and put a critical eye on the engine cover. Have a 2nd party rev the engine to 3k. If it looks stable, walk away. If it rocks visibly fore/aft check the upper dog bone mount first before the front mount. If it shakes radically, check all mounts. Usually, a busted mount is perceived in the cockpit as a harsh shifting, and not what you have described.

If it passes, but you still feel and issue, stand to the left side and look along the front of the engine and observe the belts. See if you can perceive wobble to indicate a misalignment between pulleys, focus on the upper belt (ac and alternator) and less on the lower (ps pump only).



Old 07-17-18, 04:43 AM
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acarapella
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I appreciate the response. I have been working on better throttle although I thought the 128,000 we put on a v6 solara (3mz) trained me enough lol I guess not. I’ll look into the mounts at 3000 rpm. Always checked whilst shifting from park to drive/reverse and back so interested to see how this way differs.







As for the 3.0l not being able to mask the AC clutch, that’s sad. Yes this is an entry level luxury car, it wouldn’t have been a massive cost or engineering feat to hide it better. Figured it was a condition of age. The newest one of these I’ve had was at 68,000. I realize of course it’s similar (almost identical, mechanically) to a Camry v6 but the difference is in metal thickness in areas, sound deadening, materials quality, and it’s substantial. Also the 5 speed instead of 4 if I recall. Avalon and Camry had the 4 speed. Which actually may have been better lol but a 5 speed is an upgrade. For me, those differences are just enough, and I still get to enjoy mass production replacement part costs. I’ve always wanted an LS but they’ve always gotten away
Old 07-17-18, 09:48 AM
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Oro - what exactly does the factory code revision for the transmission consist of? Did or does Lexus still do it for free?
Old 07-18-18, 12:02 PM
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I haven’t had it done, so am only passing on comments from those who went through it at the time.

To address buyer complaints, the factory revised the programming of the shift points and programmed throttle response to inputs. Some where satisfied with the changes, others were not. It was available during warranty if asked, but not a recall. It was irreversible once done, and it did damage mpgs a good bit, it was reported.

That is what I recall from past conversations; they should be archived.
Old 07-19-18, 02:46 AM
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Kingdom934
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Originally Posted by acarapella
I appreciate the response. I have been working on better throttle although I thought the 128,000 we put on a v6 solara (3mz) trained me enough lol I guess not. I’ll look into the mounts at 3000 rpm. Always checked whilst shifting from park to drive/reverse and back so interested to see how this way differs.







As for the 3.0l not being able to mask the AC clutch, that’s sad. Yes this is an entry level luxury car, it wouldn’t have been a massive cost or engineering feat to hide it better. Figured it was a condition of age. The newest one of these I’ve had was at 68,000. I realize of course it’s similar (almost identical, mechanically) to a Camry v6 but the difference is in metal thickness in areas, sound deadening, materials quality, and it’s substantial. Also the 5 speed instead of 4 if I recall. Avalon and Camry had the 4 speed. Which actually may have been better lol but a 5 speed is an upgrade. For me, those differences are just enough, and I still get to enjoy mass production replacement part costs. I’ve always wanted an LS but they’ve always gotten away
The AC part with the compressor kicking in felt the same between my 2004 Camry V6 and my friends 2002 ES300. Same fan blower noise ticking as well lol. You'll feel a slight kick in the idle and steering wheel vibration. Not too bad...not as bad as an I4 engine though.

The 2002 V6 Camry with the U140E was a 4spd with the carry over V6. There was a change over from the U140E to the U151E in mid 2003 for the Camry V6...I've seen some early 2003 have the 4spd automatic though. The 2003 VVTi V6 had the U151E IIRC. It's a bit weird. 2003-2006 V6 all had VVTi and those Camry had the U151E. The ES300 2002-2003 according to what I seen had the 3.0L VVTi U150E. The later years with the 3.3L then had the U151E. The Avalon on the other hand throughout the Gen2 run had the VVTi 3.0L and the 4spd with the older (and IMO more reliable) A541E thoughout the entire run. Interseting to note the flagship of Toyota had the 4spd automatic until end of 2004 while the Camry V6 had opt for the 5spd from 2003.

What you are describing with the shifting is a bit normal. My friends 2002 ES300 had the same feel as my 2004 XLE V6 Camry - the lag in gear shifting and hunting out of a slow speed turn. It's a common complaint for people who drive my car as well. The transmission...err more so the programming with these cars made the shifts uber soft, but it sometimes make the car guess which gear it should be in and hence it hesitates and shifts hard sometimes. With that said, the car does not like aggressive throttle response in the city.

Last edited by Kingdom934; 07-19-18 at 02:49 AM.
Old 07-20-18, 05:29 AM
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acarapella
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Thats all insightful. The Avalon's 4 speed was wonderful. There is something about the 2nd gen Avalon that I love. I walked away from a lovely bench seat sunroof leather 2002 with 199,900 miles only because of body rust which is unacceptable at my job. I regret it. Very, very nice car.

I am wondering about this reprogram.... my car already guzzles gas though, and I drive like I was born in 1920. I find it doesn't compute exactly; I get 1mpg better with my math. Best tank ever was just under 27 mpg. The 3mz/u151e Solara average 30.1 for a 3 month average once, at around 160,000 miles. This isn't that important to me or i'd buy another camry hybrid (almost did for $1500 but it was HAMMERED).

I really thought my throttle actuation was gentle, but I have toned it down even more and found a better driving experience. The 2nd-to-1rst down shift after a turn is still dramatic like I put my foot to the floor, but gentle helps. Nothing is better than a throttle CABLE. my 1950 Chevy has a cable (although it came with a set of linkage originally) responds almost telepathically. And its torque makes the most out of all three gears =) I remember the 1995 ES300 I had was delightful at shifting, except when it was cold it would hold 2nd for a while.
Old 07-20-18, 10:43 PM
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[I am wondering about this reprogram.... my car already guzzles gas though, and I drive like I was born in 1920. I find it doesn't compute exactly; I get 1mpg better with my math. Best tank ever was just under 27 mpg.
That sounds like it was reprogrammed - maybe. Doing 55~60mph, flat roads, lightly loaded (one or two people, no junk in the trunk), it should do almost 30mph - but strictly hwy miles as town miles pull down the average fast. AVERAGE tank, like, mixed highway commute and local roads home, grocery trips in evening/weekend, it will be 24 to 26 average for the whole tank. That is "as new/well-tuned" mileage. If my description makes sense. If you are doing 26mpg average in mixed useage, that's very good. If that was crossing the Tamiami trail at 60mph with only one exit for gas, it's a bit low.

The 2nd-to-1rst down shift after a turn is still dramatic like I put my foot to the floor, but gentle helps.
That is classic bad motor mount. Ours did that badly a while, then I replaced a cracked upper torque strut. It tamed it a bit, but it was not solved until I checked the lower mounts and replaced one. Check your upper torque strut especially. The OE one has little baffles on the sides so you can't visualize it w/o pulling them up or tearing them away. After that, the "side" mounts (actually drive train front/rear given transverse mounting: engine is passenger/R side, transmission is driver/L side) are the next suspects. They are harder to check as you have to unbolt them top and bottom both sides, and with the frame on stands, separately jack the drivetrain. Then you can manipulate the upper studs to see if they are torn loose from the rubber isolation/mounting material inside the mount. Not terribly hard, really.
Old 07-21-18, 05:50 AM
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acarapella
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I used to live in Boca, so I know what you mean. At 60, AC off, no extra weight, I'd see over 30mog, but comparatively, our solara followed a UHAUL from Boca to Rochester (1500 miles) and because neither of us like AC, and the top speed was like 62, it averaged 37mph with a 3mz. I wonder if the folks with the es330 see crazy mileage like the solara? same motor/trans.

As for the mounts, I never suspected those side ones but I will check them! I am assuming, as with nearly all mounts now-a-days, dealer only unless I want to change them every 6 months right?

Thanks again
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