torque lock vibration
Thread Starter
Driver
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 129
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From: idaho
torque lock vibration
I just got a 93 es300. When I was looking at it I noticed a vibration that seemed to occur in 3rd gear. I took a look at the tranny and it was low. The previous owner topped it off, I tried it out again and it seemed to drive great.
So I bought it but after driving it on the highway I notice the problem is still there, except much worse it seems (also, the check engine light turned on a couple hours after I bought it). Between 40-60mph there is a pretty bad vibration. It seems to only happen in 4th gear and I suspect it only happens when the torque convertor locks up, but it's kind of hard to tell because the taco-meter needle is out. I'm guessing I didn't notice the 2-3 shift while I was test driving it.
And more clues: I had the tranny flushed, and they told me the final drive unit was overfull. It also sometimes makes a bizarre noise that sounds like liquid or gas being forced through a narrow opening while in neutral. If I accelerate so it upshifts/unlock (can't tell which it is doing) the vibration goes away. At above 65 the vibration is not noticeable.
Please tell me it's a solenoid or something and this can be easily fixed..
So I bought it but after driving it on the highway I notice the problem is still there, except much worse it seems (also, the check engine light turned on a couple hours after I bought it). Between 40-60mph there is a pretty bad vibration. It seems to only happen in 4th gear and I suspect it only happens when the torque convertor locks up, but it's kind of hard to tell because the taco-meter needle is out. I'm guessing I didn't notice the 2-3 shift while I was test driving it.
And more clues: I had the tranny flushed, and they told me the final drive unit was overfull. It also sometimes makes a bizarre noise that sounds like liquid or gas being forced through a narrow opening while in neutral. If I accelerate so it upshifts/unlock (can't tell which it is doing) the vibration goes away. At above 65 the vibration is not noticeable.
Please tell me it's a solenoid or something and this can be easily fixed..
Last edited by 12340987; May 13, 2009 at 01:28 AM.
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 745
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From: tx
Try to isolate if the vibration is related to speed, or the gear that you are in, ie take it up to around 40~50 to where it starts, and then shift out of overdrive. If the tranny itself is the problem, you should notice some change. If it makes no difference (3rd grear or overdrive) chances are more likely a wheel bearing, drive shaft or something else.
Does the sound change when you give it a LITTLE bit of gas to accelerate? Or if you release the gas , coast.
Does the sound change when you give it a LITTLE bit of gas to accelerate? Or if you release the gas , coast.
Thread Starter
Driver
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 129
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From: idaho
the sounds I described I only notice while idling.
The vibration does go away when it shifts into 3rd, it only seems to happen in OD but only when the torque converter locks and I am applying some gas. If I accelerate enough to make it drop in RPMs (once again, it's hard to read that gauge) there is no vibration. When I am coasting the vibration goes away. At 65 the vibration is unnoticeable.
It does seem to sway a lot when cornering right at high speed, but I thought it just needed new struts. Other than that it goes straight and drives nice. The CVs make no noise when I am going around in circles.
The vibration does go away when it shifts into 3rd, it only seems to happen in OD but only when the torque converter locks and I am applying some gas. If I accelerate enough to make it drop in RPMs (once again, it's hard to read that gauge) there is no vibration. When I am coasting the vibration goes away. At 65 the vibration is unnoticeable.
It does seem to sway a lot when cornering right at high speed, but I thought it just needed new struts. Other than that it goes straight and drives nice. The CVs make no noise when I am going around in circles.
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 745
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From: tx
You say the vibration goes away when it shifts into 3rd,. In which gears to you feel the vibration?
To Eliminate the locking torque converter (clutch), bring it up to the speed it is happening and with your left foot, LIGHTLY apply the brakes. The idea is to press down hard enough to apply the brake light, not to slow the car down. The torque converter clutch is designed to dis-engage when the brakes are first applied.
As far as the sound, is it related to when you press the brakes? Kind of a whosssh noise? That would be the brake booster, otherwise I would look for vac leaks, check you hoses.
And of course the check engine light> most major auto part stores will read the codes for free. Many of the codes that set the light will be stored. Which means that the light does not have to be on when they read the codes.
To Eliminate the locking torque converter (clutch), bring it up to the speed it is happening and with your left foot, LIGHTLY apply the brakes. The idea is to press down hard enough to apply the brake light, not to slow the car down. The torque converter clutch is designed to dis-engage when the brakes are first applied.
As far as the sound, is it related to when you press the brakes? Kind of a whosssh noise? That would be the brake booster, otherwise I would look for vac leaks, check you hoses.
And of course the check engine light> most major auto part stores will read the codes for free. Many of the codes that set the light will be stored. Which means that the light does not have to be on when they read the codes.
Thread Starter
Driver
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 129
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From: idaho
Actually the squirting/hissing sounds seem to be coming from the steering system, so forget about that. It goes away as soon as I stopped touching the steering wheel. But there is a rattling noise that I think may be coming from the transmission. I thought it was a heat shield but notice it doesn't seem to change with RPM. I will make an audio recording of it if I can.
The vibration is only noticeable in 4th with the torque lock engaged. I drove it around today and think there may be some vibration occurring in other gears, but it's just not as pronounced. What it seems like to me is: 40MPH 2000RPM, 4th gear no torque lock, no vibration; 40MPH, 1800-1900 RPM, with torque lock, accelerating, lots of vibration.
I have a bad exhaust leak and think that it may be the CEL code. I was afraid this car was too old to use a code scanner so didn't take it to the store. I've been looking in the FSM and forums on directions for checking codes, anyone have a link?
Thanks for the brake tap suggestion, George, I will do that and be sure.
The vibration is only noticeable in 4th with the torque lock engaged. I drove it around today and think there may be some vibration occurring in other gears, but it's just not as pronounced. What it seems like to me is: 40MPH 2000RPM, 4th gear no torque lock, no vibration; 40MPH, 1800-1900 RPM, with torque lock, accelerating, lots of vibration.
I have a bad exhaust leak and think that it may be the CEL code. I was afraid this car was too old to use a code scanner so didn't take it to the store. I've been looking in the FSM and forums on directions for checking codes, anyone have a link?
Thanks for the brake tap suggestion, George, I will do that and be sure.
Thread Starter
Driver
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: idaho
I tried tapping the brake and it seems like the vibration is only happening at torque lock. So does torque lock re-engage immediately after you release the brake? As soon as I took my foot off the pedal it would seem to reengage and the vibration would come back.
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 745
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From: tx
The torque converter clutch should release so soon as you step on the brake. It will re-engage shortly after releasing the brake (assuming similar conditions, ie speed, engine load). For this test, just tapping the brakes, yes it should re-engage quickly. Drop the trans oil pan and see what is in the bottom of the pan, might as well change the filter too, while you're in there. How many miles on the car?
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Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
From: tx
Flushed? Did they drop the pan, more interested in what is in the bottom of the pan. The vibration appears to be directly related to the torque converter clutch engaging. If the clutch is history, you should find evidence of it in the pan.
Technically, you can flush a trans without touching the pan. Do you know if the pan was dropped or not?
Technically, you can flush a trans without touching the pan. Do you know if the pan was dropped or not?
Thread Starter
Driver
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: idaho
No it wasn't, I opted for the cheaper flush which didn't involve removing the pan 
. I watched them do it too. That sucks, I don't want to do this all over again just to find out that my torque converter is toast. How many hours of labor is it to replace a torque convertor?
. I watched them do it too. That sucks, I don't want to do this all over again just to find out that my torque converter is toast. How many hours of labor is it to replace a torque convertor?
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 745
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From: tx
Book hours 6.7. But at 180k I would strongly suggest finding out what is in the pan. Of course it is allready too late to see what was flushed out. If the clutch is toast, there is a very good possibility that the friction material is now distributed throughout your trans. I don't know what it would cost for a new converter, but I would suggest something like this ebay auction.
92 93 Toyota Camry Lexus ES300 Auto Transmission 3vz
Clifton, NJ Toll Free 1-877-249-7990 Local 973-249-7000 Item number: 330329843417
92 93 Toyota Camry Lexus ES300 Auto Transmission 3vz
Clifton, NJ Toll Free 1-877-249-7990 Local 973-249-7000 Item number: 330329843417
Thread Starter
Driver
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: idaho
$250 for a tranny flush? That's insane. All it takes is someone to attach a machine to a few lines and run it.
I looked at the fluid coming out as it was flushed. It was very dark, but I didn't see junk in it. You're saying its possible the converter isnt the issue?
$350 for a tranny is not bad, I just wish I knew someone who could install it.
I looked at the fluid coming out as it was flushed. It was very dark, but I didn't see junk in it. You're saying its possible the converter isnt the issue?
$350 for a tranny is not bad, I just wish I knew someone who could install it.
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
From: tx
The converter is part of the issue, but at this moment you have no idea of the overall condition of the tranny. You have 180k on it, and there appears to be significant problems. You would have to drop the pan and investigate. Depending on what is found you would have to make a decision on how much it would cost to repair this one, or replace it.
The Jdm is one thing to consider. As far as people to install, many independent shops would be willing to install if you do not have the tools / space / or experience to take on a job like this.
The Jdm is one thing to consider. As far as people to install, many independent shops would be willing to install if you do not have the tools / space / or experience to take on a job like this.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 35
From: Dickinson, Texas
$250 for a tranny flush? That's insane. All it takes is someone to attach a machine to a few lines and run it.
I looked at the fluid coming out as it was flushed. It was very dark, but I didn't see junk in it. You're saying its possible the converter isnt the issue?
$350 for a tranny is not bad, I just wish I knew someone who could install it.
I looked at the fluid coming out as it was flushed. It was very dark, but I didn't see junk in it. You're saying its possible the converter isnt the issue?
$350 for a tranny is not bad, I just wish I knew someone who could install it.