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Toyota rebooting its EV plan with Tesla in mind

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Old Nov 11, 2022 | 10:34 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by mbarron37
I laugh at everyone, including myself!!!!!
Well than, Are you not entertained?
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Old Nov 11, 2022 | 10:42 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I think they mean overpriced for the quality. They are not overpriced for the fun, excitement and novelty. Plus there is no gas to put in. For example, the Tesla 3 is a like $100,000 power train but in a $15,000 car. While there is a lot of cutting edge technology, a Tesla 3 lacks A LOT of features. Last week we called an Uber, it was a Tesla 3. The driver had no car play so he had to handle his phone. The car was not at all quiet at highway speeds. There were many features missing as well. The ride was harsh. But it was FAST. And the screen is COOL
As long as people are willing to pay that price and they sell every last one they produce, then they are not overpriced, according to the market. If you were selling a product that you paid X amount for but sold it for XXX amount and they left the shelves faster than you could produce, would you not continue to sell it at XXX?

The 300K plus people (and growing) per quarter who buy Tesla's don't believe they are overpriced, and that's all that really matters. But they do find other Premium brands apparently overpriced, which is why sales are declining



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Old Nov 11, 2022 | 10:53 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by AMIRZA786
But they do find other Premium brands apparently overpriced, which is why sales are declining
To be fair, that probably has more to do with other brands having supply chain issues. But it's also an indicator of just how robust Tesla's supply chain is compared to everyone else, where they can continue to make more and more cars despite the global shortages. No wonder Toyota is looking up to them as a manufacturer.
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Old Nov 11, 2022 | 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Motorola
To be fair, that probably has more to do with other brands having supply chain issues. But it's also an indicator of just how robust Tesla's supply chain is compared to everyone else, where they can continue to make more and more cars despite the global shortages. No wonder Toyota is looking up to them as a manufacturer.
Supply chain shortages for other automakers just shows their competencies as compared to Tesla. I can only conclude from this that other manufactures have not been as forward thinking in investing in their supply and manufacturing chains
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Old Nov 12, 2022 | 04:31 AM
  #125  
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Reminder yet again… keep the politics and debate content off our community.

Post and reply removed

Last edited by DaveGS4; Nov 12, 2022 at 05:51 AM.
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Old Nov 12, 2022 | 10:15 AM
  #126  
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"Toyota is re-thinking their EV strategy because the cost to build these EVs is going up. So the Toyota EV is gonna go up in price"

I know this post was removed, but I want to comment on this sentence in it. So what is it? Fake news? SPAM? Or are you acknowledging finally that Toyota is actually revamping their EV strategy? All this backpedaling is confusing me
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Old Nov 12, 2022 | 01:16 PM
  #127  
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Guys please stop the nitpicking and baiting posts.
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Old Nov 12, 2022 | 01:43 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by DaveGS4
Guys please stop the nitpicking and baiting posts.
With all due respect, nobody was baiting anyone. If I make statements and someone questions me, is that off limits as well? How do I achieve protected status like some people here have?

I want to be a productive member of this community, but to do that you have to be able to defend your position, and that sometimes means questioning what others present as facts. If people can just say anything they want hiding under it being an opinion and not be questioned, then what's the use of having a discussion? Just my 2 cents

Last edited by AMIRZA786; Nov 12, 2022 at 02:04 PM.
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Old Nov 12, 2022 | 02:40 PM
  #129  
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My comment wasn’t just about your post and was also addressing others in the thread.

However consider if you took enough time to resurrect and repost a sentence from a 5+ hour old moderator deleted post for the purposes of calling out another member’s rhetorical comment that was clearly related to an image they posted (not their opinion about the article as already stated in this thread), I would suggest you are taking things too far in your questioning.

if you want to discuss further you can pm me, let’s get this thread back on topic.

Last edited by DaveGS4; Nov 12, 2022 at 03:10 PM. Reason: Clarify per deleted post
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Old Dec 12, 2022 | 10:38 PM
  #130  
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Another update from Reuters, Toyota will be announcing big changes early next year. Looks like there's going to be some delays on planned EV launches until they can figure their dilemma. Probably why we haven't heard anything recently about the RZ either.

Exclusive: Toyota to outline 3-year EV plan changes to suppliers

Dec 12 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) is expected to outline adjustments to its electric vehicle (EV) strategy to key suppliers early next year, as it races to narrow the gap on price and performance with industry leaders Tesla and BYD, two people with knowledge of the work said.The leading Japanese automaker is expected to detail the EV plan changes through early 2026, communicating the adjustments to major suppliers, the people said on condition of anonymity as the information is confidential.

Toyota has been looking at ways to improve the competitiveness of EVs being planned for this decade, in part by speeding up the adoption of performance-boosting technologies for planned EVs, from electric drive systems - including motors - to the electronics that convert power from the grid to energy stored in batteries and more integrated heating and cooling systems, the people said.

The changes, however, might include delays to some of the EV development programmes originally planned for the three-year period, one of the people said.

The changes would be for the successors to Toyota's first two EVs for major markets, the bZ4X and the Lexus RZ, and intended to close the gap with Tesla Inc on cost and performance, the people said.

Toyota is set to convene a major powwow of suppliers in February, the first such global supplier convention since the pandemic.

Toyota said in a statement that it is “always actively discussing and working with key (suppliers and partners) on a variety of topics,” to achieve carbon neutrality. But it said it had no new details to disclose on EV development projects.

Billionaire Elon Musk's Tesla made almost eight times the profit per vehicle as Toyota for the third quarter, partly because of its ability to simplify EV production and reduce cost, analysts have said.

Toyota has been reviewing a $30-billion, three-stage plan for developing and releasing EVs it announced late last year, Reuters reported in October.

It has suspended work on some battery-powered car projects announced last year, while a working group headed by former chief competitive officer Shigeki Terashi looks to improve cost performance and technology in the fast-growing market for EVs.

The working group has been charged with outlining plans to improve Toyota's EV approach, including considering a potential successor to its new EV platform, e-TNGA.

The revamp comes even as Toyota holds the view that gasoline-electric hybrids, a market it pioneered with the Prius, will remain a crucial part of the transition to carbon-neutral transport.

Most major automakers expect EVs to account for the majority of vehicle sales by 2030, and green investors and environmental groups have pushed Toyota to move faster as industry-wide EV sales exceed Toyota's earlier assumptions.

E-TNGA

Toyota's EV strategy has focussed on the rollout of cars like the bZ4X, the first of a string of battery electric vehicles under the series name "beyond zero".

The second stage of Toyota's plan covers the next several years when Toyota has models based on the e-TNGA platform in development, the company has told some suppliers. Adjustments to this phase are the changes likely to outlined to suppliers early next year.

Now Terashi's group is considering whether to drop the three-year-old e-TNGA architecture, created by modifying a gasoline car platform, in favour of a dedicated EV platform, people with knowledge of that work have said.

E-TNGA was designed so EVs could be built on Toyota assembly lines with gasoline cars and hybrids, a compromise that limits the automaker's ability to deliver factory-floor innovations that Toyota engineers now recognise as key to Tesla's strength.

Also, Toyota designed e-TNGA on the assumption it would need to sell about 3.5 million EVs a year, about one-third of its current global volume, by 2030, sources have said, while the industry outlook is for a faster pace of growth.

Toyota has been working with two suppliers Denso (6902.T) and Aisin (7259.T) for its EV reboot.

It has been looking at whether it could expedite the adoption of a new thermal management system jointly developed by Aisin and Denso and potentially a more advanced electric powertrain, or eAxle, from Aisin.

Toyota has also been looking at whether it could introduce in some large premium EVs a just-developed silicone-carbide-based inverter from Denso that would improve charging and help lower manufacturing costs.

Denso and Aisin did not respond to requests for comment.

Terashi's role in leading Toyota's EV strategy review, after being sidelined in the company, has been seen by some as a sign the automaker is closer to a full pivot on EVs.

Terashi, 67, did not respond to a request for comment.

Over the course of his 42-year career, Terashi has been one of Toyota's top vehicle planners and a strong advocate of zero-emissions cars, including hydrogen.

He was part of the team that opened the way for Toyota's cooperation with China's BYD (002594.SZ), the world's largest EV maker. That resulted in a soon-to-be-marketed, China-only Toyota electric sedan called the bZ3, powered by BYD batteries.
Turns out e-TNGA in the BZ4X and RZ is NOT a bespoke EV platform. And Toyota is considering axing it altogether.

Now Terashi's group is considering whether to drop the three-year-old e-TNGA architecture, created by modifying a gasoline car platform, in favour of a dedicated EV platform, people with knowledge of that work have said.

E-TNGA was designed so EVs could be built on Toyota assembly lines with gasoline cars and hybrids, a compromise that limits the automaker's ability to deliver factory-floor innovations that Toyota engineers now recognise as key to Tesla's strength.
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Old Dec 12, 2022 | 11:35 PM
  #131  
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Lord, messy! But good, they should drop those EV's. Not even remotely competitive unfortunately. They are getting lapped at a furious pace and now talking more delays. Wow.
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Old Dec 12, 2022 | 11:49 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by GFerg
Lord, messy! But good, they should drop those EV's. Not even remotely competitive unfortunately. They are getting lapped at a furious pace and now talking more delays. Wow.
They may be badly designed compared to other EV's, but it would be an even worse decision to axe them now IMO. If Toyota axes them, they'll have no EV's to sell for years, which means buyers who want EV's will move on to other brands that do offer them. At the very least, they have to get some market share.
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Old Dec 13, 2022 | 09:18 AM
  #133  
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Messy indeed. The bad news just keeps coming in. Hopefully their hybrids can keep them plowing forward
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Old Dec 13, 2022 | 09:39 AM
  #134  
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So these were all fakes? Looks like it.

Toyota rebooting its EV plan with Tesla in mind-emz7re6.jpg
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Old Dec 13, 2022 | 09:47 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by LeX2K
So these were all fakes? Looks like it.

Now you're making me want to go and lift all the hoods....
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