Much improved styling. A more grown-up, mature look than the 2022 toy car styling.

 

They are actually nowhere near as good a car as people think. Consistently below average for reliability for years now.

 

As far the non luxury sedans are concerned civic/accord are still the best in my view.

 

The prior couple generations of the Civic, this is not the case. Civic has been disappointing for years prior to the current generation.

 

I agree previous gen civics especially around 2012-2017 were average. I was referring to the current gen civic. We had a 2017 accord v6 which was also fantastic. CRV is also one of the top choices in its class IMO. Point is that in its core segment Honda has very good products.

 

The press will have you believe the CRV is a top choice. My mom has a '19 Touring model - there's nothing "top" about it. It's nice, it does the trick. But I don't see how it's "top", unless you just measure straight sales. The interior of the RAV4 and Hyundai Tucson and the Mazda CX-5 and CX-50 are all far and away better than the current CRV.

 

I can speak to this. We ditched my wife's '11 CRV in 2018 for an Outback and I don't think that we could have made a smarter decision. Our Honda had 70k miles on it, which should be a drop in the bucket for the life of a Honda. But it had a chronic oil consumption problem, which Honda was issuing extended warranties for. However, ours did not qualify, yet they could not determine how to correct the consumption issue. I found myself adding 4 quarts of oil between oil changes.

 

Totally. My assistant has a CRV and his family has all Hondas and they have all kinds of problems and at low mileage. My brother in law we were just in the Pocanos with has a Subaru Forester that has 120k on it, and he has never had one non maintenance issue. Subarus and Toyotas are much more reliable than Hondas.

 

This statement is simply not accurate. Below is the Consumer Reports reliability survey for recent years of the CR-V. Green is good, red is bad. I'll grant that Honda reliability overall has slipped below Toyota's level, but facts are facts.

 

Sorry, my experience has shown that it is in fact accurate. I'm not saying the CR-V itself is not a reliable car, I'm saying that Honda as a brand deserves no special consideration for reliability nowadays. Theres this idea that Toyota and Honda are "similar" in that regard, and that just isn't the case. FWIW, his CRV has spent at least 30 days off the road for warranty repairs. I know lots of people with newer Hondas that have the same issues, and nobody with Toyotas that have any issues like that.

Look at the last few years of JD Power's VDS...Honda is not a "bottom barrel performer" but they are solidly below average and not anywhere in the same league as Toyota:

 

This is entirely anecdotal, but my supervisor had to take a personal day last week because both of his Hondas had issues that morning (Pilot and Accord). I think the Pilot is the older, boxier second generation but the Accord is a 2017 that he bought new. The Accord is just a year past the warranty and the issue was with the starter. I don’t consider Toyota as reliable as they once were but still pretty good overall. My perception of Honda/Acura nowadays is merely average and am surprised by the surveys that peg it even below average!

 

Yes, my comment was directed only at the CR-V model. We agree that Honda brandwide has slipped below both its historical level and Toyota's. That's why my last car was an Acura but my new one is a Lexus.

I will say this for Honda, though: If I'm betting my money, I'd still bet it on a Honda product over a Hyundai or Kia (and yes, even though I see what the JD Power graph says).

In INITIAL quality, Hyundais and Kias have become very good. But for long-term durability of the greasy bits, the H/K 100,000 mile warranty (which they infamously find excuses to dishonor) may be a masterstroke of image improvement, but the cars themselves stil aren't built to last. Yeah, Honda's 2.0T oil dilution problem is real, and the 10-speeds shifted like crap until they sorted the software.

But you don't see catastrophic stuff like H/K's metal shavings left inside to rip apart thousands of engines, or the Soul CVT's grenading after 2,000 miles, or ABS modules burning the owner's house down when the car wasn't even running (a problem H/K STILL doesn't even know how to fix). Honda no longer cares as much as it did or should about dependability, but they also know more about how to engineer a solid powertrain than Hyundai or Kia has ever cared to learn.

 

If I was buying a car to keep for 150,000 miles, I wouldn't buy a Hyundai or Kia yet...but I also wouldn't buy a Honda. I would buy a Toyota.

As for catastrophic stuff, I know numerous people that have had to have their transmissions replaced in Hondas with less than 80K miles. Thats pretty catastrophic.

The fact that we are defending Honda with Kia and Hyundai illustrates the problem.

 

Note that Honda always had a problem with automatics on V6's, going back 20 years. Important to remember that when we condemn the present as inferior to the past, even the past was good but not perfect.

As for trusting Toyota more than any of them, you and me both, as I mentioned above. For reliability and durability, Toyota now stands alone. If I had to pick even a second choice now, it'd probably be Mazda.

 

OK, but FWIW, if that transmission replacement @ 80K miles was on a Kia or Hyundai, it would be covered under warranty if it's within 10 years.