Well, they are.

It’s a different situation. Like I described earlier, really the members here are CL’s customers, and CL is a for profit enterprise. The members are telling you that there is something that they are unhappy with and want to see changed.

Dave said he is open to some sort of solution, and I’m working on what he asked me to work on and will send it to him tomorrow.

 

Great

 

No one has a problem when threads are locked and/or members asked not to post when things get a little heated. That’s not common here, but it happens and few here are going to have any issue with that when it does.

What is at issue is that there are good conversations where members are actively participating and which are staying broadly within the spirit of the “General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news” forum remit getting closed without much in the way of obvious justification. There was another one just today. The “last special ICE car” thread wasn’t spiraling out of control and the posts before it was closed were absolutely on topic, yet it was locked.

 

swajames, if you want to complain, how about you scoll back through and come up with some other examples you have concerns about, but also let's have you list those threads that are closed that you DO agree with if you're going to cherry-pick.

I just did that for a couple months worth of threads and there really aren't many that I think are borderline (and frankly there aren't a ton of them in total given the volume and some of the long running threads). Moderators aren't perfect but in general it looks pretty fair and the bulk of those that were closed that I reviewed had obvious issues and usually had reasonable warnings given first. You're making it sound like an epidemic and I want to see what your issue is beyond these two threads today.

I'll also again remind you that there are issues you can't see that are moderated / removed that warrant thread closure and will give you an example.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...new-house.html
This one did go off topic some but it got closed because for some reason it was attractive to 5 separate spammer accounts who bumped it several times within a week with crap links for movers and brick sales. You don't see that because those posts were removed and closed so they couldn't keep rejoining and bumping it with their scammy spam links.

 

I get where Steve is coming from. I've seen it in many threads. We'll have 9 pages about Kia/Hyundai recalls or 15 pages dating back to last May about big trucks, but then those topics by that point have been covered; there's not much else to discuss. So instead of staying with just the original topic, the thread will morph into something else, even if it's not 100% about what is stated in the thread title. It's similar to discussion in real life: just a natural change in the conversation. Nothing wrong with that.

You can't just tell us to begin a new thread because then it's not a natural progression anymore. It ruins any free flowing talk that we would have had otherwise. I can speak for a lot of members on here that we check these threads several times a day for any new activity, even if there hasn't been any. Again, it's a great way for us to stay engaged and as he said, the whole purpose of a car chat forum is to discuss.... cars, right? I don't see any problem if the topic has been covered plenty and the conversation naturally shifts to something else related to the automotive world.

 

To be honest it does kinda stink a little when people contribute to a thread and it goes off topic so long that it feels like I'm hijacking the thread to come back and reply to someone who posted something on topic. haha

That's why I always leave and dont come back when that happens but that's just me and I understand people see things different.

PS- and I don't see a darn thing wrong with resurrecting a thread if it is something someone wants to add more info, ask about, or update, etc in the future because like already said, it is a flowing conversation. In contrast bumping threads is kinda lame for just the purpose of bumping IMO.

 

i guess we would just call that area "s--t show" because that's what it would be.

that's a different topic. what's "not allowed" is pretty specific, racial, politics, obscene, insults, pretty obvious stuff. what you're actually objecting to is threads being closed that have gone WAY off original topic and have changed into one or more other topics and 'platforms' for commentary of all sorts of things completely unrelated, typically for a very small number of active users making the same comments over and over and over again. while those few users may enjoy the 'banter' the forum is here for more than the few and if a thread starts on a specific car topic and changes into something else, the someone coming into the thread may be hesitant to post something actually on topic after reading through all the dreck about other things. that essentially lowers the overall content quality.

and maybe that's why it's one of the busiest too.

right because you don't like the rules.

that is completely incorrect. people search for all sorts of things in car chat precisely because it's not limited to lexus models.

again, don't mischaracterize what has been stated here in the first post. it isn't about what can and cannot be discussed, but yes, it is about keeping threads largely on topic. it really isn't a hard concept or unreasonable.

i think you're saying that if there's a separate 's--t show' area, then moderators can keep other threads on topic like we currently require. will threads in this separate area have titles? will it all be just one thread? if it's just one thread, and someone new in the forum comes in, and this thread has 500 different topics on it, where do they jump in? those 'regulars' who have followed most or all of it may enjoy it, but i submit that it's of little value to anyone else.

this is an example of where you are not able to see hardly any of the actual moderating that is done. we are CONSTANTLY moving threads out of car chat to model-specific forums for example.

easy for you to say that this splitting and merging would be easy.

i'd say that's a weak argument and that creating a new thread is no big effort.

that was 'do you wanna feel old' thread, which i had a problem with anyway (the title) which is pure click bait, as someone has no idea what's in the thread. but dave was ok with it, so it stayed. but predictably, it went way, way, way off your original content of a civid si now being old enough to have historic plates.

again, not true except staying largely on topic or directly related.

very simple... if the thread has no connection to the original topic and the same people usually are just posting over and over the same old discussions, it's time for it to close.

i just looked and it had gone off onto hood ornaments, the merits of various s-class, the tv show the wonder years, the 1970s gas crisis, etc. hardly about historic plates on a civic si.

moderators welcome any PM comments that can be discussed confidentially.

it isn't though, it's car chat, that isn't model-specific. pretty clear.

most started thread topics in car chat are fine, they're about cars. it's when they go from one thing (disussion of a new vehicle for example) into another (my car's better than yours, endless 'things were so much better in the past', yet another EV vs ICE discussion, etc) that it's off-topic.

bravo... exactly right.

again, taking a look, it had become about lexus cars parked in driveways, people's car buying histories, whether steve will get an suv next - nothing about whether people are buying a last special ice car and what kind.

moderating threads that go all over the place is challenging because we have to read tons of stuff that we've likely seen posted over and over and over in other threads. if you want 'all over the map', use twitter.

 

Yes there is a problem with that.

Yes we can ask you to start a new thread and we are doing just that. You are illustrating exactly the issue we face.

if the thread has nothing more topical to add and you have a brand new unrelated topic to discuss, simply start a new thread. PLEASE. It will flow just fine in the new thread

This forum will become a total ****show if you want to just ramble off in any direction in any thread. Most everyone will stop contributing except a very small handful posting about a zigzag shifter in a 73 Vega in a Hyundai engine fire thread. That’s not the kind of place I want to be part of.

 

thank you for stating that!
that's exactly the point.

and that's unfortunate because you had something to contribute on the thread topic but were put off because typically a small set of 'regulars' have added dozen of posts taking it off down all kinds of unrelated places.

i'd say we're pretty lenient about posting into older threads, but if it was say a 5 year old thread that was already very long, we may close that one and move the new posts to a new thread where the content will be more relevant to today.

i can see that sometimes someone is trying to do the right thing (probably had to search first) by adding their new post to a very old thread on the same topic, but then users seeing that thread will likely start from the start and think 'what is this old stuff?' not realizing the newest post is something new, so we might split it off.

as i like to say, the perfect is the enemy of the good. no forum or volunteer moderators are perfect. but we do work hard at this.

 

yup.

great post.

 

I'll add just one thing here. I understand the reasoning behind not wanting to let politics, religion, personal biases, etc.....get out of hand. Back when we had the Debate Forum, it was sometimes difficult to tell if those posting were adults or spoiled kids..........particularly with the approach and passing of Election seasons. IMO, Bob (Lil4X) was probably the best poster in that thread, besides also being a moderator...I always had a lot of respect for him as impartial and with virtually encyclopedic knowledge.

But, in Car Chat, though, like it or not, it can be VERY difficult, even for the best and most well-meaning of posters, to avoid a least some mention of things which originate in politics. This is not the 1950s or 1960s any more, and vehicles since the 1970s are regulated, planned, engineered, and produced according to governmental actions, laws, regulations, pressure, and penalties if companies don't comply. I do my best to try and not bring up too many things that I know the mods will probably flag as political, but, even so, I just don't see how we can accurately discuss the industry without bringing in at least some governmental reasons for what we are seeing.

 

You will just have to find a way to try harder MM without adding any hint or flavor of support or condemnation for any perspective. Once you start pushing one side of an agenda or another you are getting into debate or politics and we are not bringing that hot mess back here.

 

I really appreciate all the work the moderators do behind the scenes to keep the peace. I love this forum, and I love sharing my experiences, and I just as much love reading all the other different experiences being shared by members across the spectrum. I'm also glad the moderators have been cracking down on rudeness, this should never be tolerated. And no, politics and religion should absolutely not be discussed because of the polarization it creates between members. Every individual believes their point of view or their political beliefs are correct, but the truth is everything lies in the middle, and there is already way to much conflict. An automobile does not have an affiliation. It just wants to be driven, and taken care of...it doesn't care who owns or drives it.

I also want to say that I also appreciate all the members who contribute to this forum, whether or not we agree. The goal is to find common ground, and if we can't, we should still hopefully walk away as friends, because after all, what brought us here was our love for cars. The last thing I want to say is I never, ever mean to be rude to any other member. If I have in the past, I hope you forgive me and I will do my best to not repeat it

 

I agree with politics. This country is already way too divided. I know I've mentioned some issues going on in this country/world, but I know it's not the proper forum for this kind of discussion so I will refrain going forward.

I would also like to apologize for all my negative rants in the past, even just this morning. I understand my beliefs about certain things (such as tech in cars or exterior styling) do not line up with most others this day and age. While I do prefer things differently from most, I will no longer attack what others like, since it's not fair to them. I don't necessarily like it when someone goes off about what I like, so I can't imagine anyone else likes the same treatment. To everyone on this entire forum, I am sorry.

I've always had a big fascination with Toyota products. It started at a young age and it has spread to Lexus over the last few years. Being able to participate in chat about not only Lexus, but other aspects of the automotive industry, is very interesting to me and this board has some tremendous users. I very much enjoy being here, contributing to any kind of discussion that I can.

 

Ok I'm fairly new here so excuse my ignorance on this but does the Thread Starter have any obligation to encourage members to stay on topic(just wondering)?
Maybe with a friendly post to nudge it back or near topic and or at their discression allow some latitude of context?

I'm not talking about when the thread turns into a contest about who's right or who's wrong or who has the "best answer" while kicking eachother in the teeth and calling eachother out- there is no room for anyone else to jump in and contribute when that happens IMO.

Problem I see is when I click on a mature thread that's 3 pages or more deep and I'm coming in late- I will read the title and 1st couple posts to get a general feel and then scroll to the last page- the last few posts will be the context I believe the thread to be which is not the context or subject of the thread sometimes. And yeah I've posted off topic a few times and so has everyone else who has more than a couple hundred posts, can't help human error or brain wires short circuiting. lol

Yeah this looks complicated and glad I'm not a moderator since this equation to make everyone happy is mind boggling complicated with conundrums that fail to compute with runtime errors... haha