First and foremost my name is Chris, and I would like to say hello to everyone on the forum. This is my very first post here.

I’ve always been a car enthusiast my entire life, mainly in classic cars, but recently I’ve caught the Lexus bug.

After watching some YouTube vids on what kind of modern luxury cars are similar to what older Cadillacs used to drive like and feel like which is softly sprung, kinda floaty car but yet very reliable, I decided to purchase a used 07 LS 460L model, last year for a really great price. I absolutely love this car! It amazes me every time I drive it.

it’s in very nice condition for its age and is fully optioned out with the 4 zone climate control, air suspension and it even has the radar cruise option as well.

Thats a little introduction of what car I own, but my main question here is what are your guys opinion that has experienced newer Lexus vehicles and how they compare to the older 90’s to about 2006-2010 Lexus vehicles in terms of quality, fit and finish, comfort, riding smoothness and quietness?

Reason being is that I used to own a 2004 Lex ES 330 and was amazed on how well built and high quality that interior was compared to the generation of the ES that came out in 2007. My GF currently owns a 09 ES 350 and the quality, look and feel of it’s interior is nowhere near the quality of the previous generation ES’s. Sure the later gen ES is larger, and feels a bit more solid, but the quality of the door panels and dash was like it belonged in a Hyundai Sonota. The wood trim looked cheap, the door panels don’t feel as solid as the older car.

My mother currently owns an 03 Lexus RX300, and that thing feels very solid! Tank like in a way. No squeaks or rattles, and the door panels feel extremely durable and tough. You can tell that Lexus put a lot of effort into the RX’s tough durable feel. Sure it’s not as nice inside like an 04 ES since their is some use of hard plastics, but at least they aren’t flimsy or really low quality. So how in your opinion do these particular years of Lexus compare to the newer ones? Do the interiors feel as nice or are they much better? Do the cars feel as solid and don’t creak, squeak or rattle like the old ones even with close to 200K miles?

Because after researching new Lexus models, some don’t feel as nice as the older years. My 07’Lex 460L is a wonderful solid feeling car, but it to does have to cheap bits to it that I don’t like. In some ways the 04 ES 330 has a nicer feeling padded dash especially the glove box which is nice and high quality in the ES 330, but very light and flimsy in the 07 LS 460. How do the older Lexus’s hold up mechanically as well? Apologies for the ultra long thread, I’m just very curious to know what’s everyone’s opinion is and if I’m not the only one that feels like the old stuff is better in some
ways.

Thanks 👍

 

Welcome to CL as a new poster, Flex.

You are exactly correct about the ES...and with most of the rest of your comments. I have said this for years....the best Lexus models, in general, were late-90s to mid-2000s. Cost-cutting and taking short-cuts steadily took over after then. The 4Gen was far and away the best ES model ever produced. One exception, though, took place after that, with the introduction of NuLuxe on the seats...a truly excellent material.


In recent years, again with some exceptions, has come the tendency for larger wheels and lower-profile tires.....which, even with multi-adjustable suspensions, has degraded ride quality somewhat.

 

I think when Lexus first started they were obsessed with making the best quality car, their goal was to outdo the S class and the 7 series, and in certain ways they were successful. But then the whole SUV craze happened, and when they introduced the RX it became such a cash cow that they no longer have to try hard, it will sell in droves and fill the cash register.

They still make certain good cars, the LS, LC, but it is clear the bean counters won't let their engineering team realize their full potential.

 

i think the relentless pursuit of perfection years is the best era for lexus, there was no reputation to go off of so toyota had no choice but to actually make the best car in the world

since the LFA i feel they've become more complacent and stopped any kind of serious innovation and have basically fallen too far behind the competition from europe, whereas at one point the LS, GS, and IS were all serious considerations when being compared to an equivalent bimmer or benz

the cars certainly aren't bad, but nowhere near as compelling as they once were when factoring in the competition

 

Having had 7 Lexuses over 22 years, there was a low point for Lexus interior quality and your 2007 LS is an example of that. That car's interior was significantly improved in 2010 and even moreso in 2013, and the interior of the LS500 is also extremely good. Lexus is back to making very nice quality interiors.

 

Welcome to the forum. To answer the question directly, I think the first decade of Lexus likely represents the best of the brand to me. This is for a few reasons:
1) Especially on the LS from 1990-2000, I think Lexus delivered an absolute homerun on interior quality, exterior quality, reliability, and refinement (a car so silent I sometimes didn't know it was even on when sitting at a stop light).
2) I now think other auto manufacturers have "closed the gap" on Lexus and other premium brands. I remember sitting in a Mazda CX9 back in late 2019 and thinking the interior finishes were on par with what I would expect from Audi (and I like Audi interiors) and actually superior to Lexus in certain ways. SW17LS has pointed out the rise in interior fit & finish in non-luxury makes recently and I have noticed it as well.
3) I think Lexus has fallen way behind in technology compared to other manufacturers. The decade from 1990-2000 seemed like Lexus was on par when it came to the technology available in cars at the time, and in some cases they had superior technology to competing luxury brands.

I have been a Toyota and Lexus loyalist for over 20 years (with the exception of 2 German cars that were owned as "third" cars while we owned Lexus'), but my primary reason is for the reliability as I have always bought used and out-of-warranty cars. If I were buying new, and especially if I was only planning on having the car for 3-5 years until a warranty expired, I don't see any reason I'd buy Lexus. I just feel there are better options out there. That being said, we still own 2 Lexus vehicles with 130k and 150k miles respectively and I still love them both.

 

Lexus used to make the smoothest riding cars out there. That changed for the LS and ES in 2007 and the RX in 2010. They started building cars with sportier, firmer suspensions. To a normal driver you may not notice. The only reason I went with a 5th gen ES (07-12) instead of a 4th gen (02-06) is because of the interior styling and more power. As SW17LS said, the low point for Lexus was 2007. The LS and ES were at their best in the mid 2000's but then in 2007 they changed everything. They cheapened up both cars and mechanically they had major issues. They did sort out those issues for the LS and ES by 2010 by sprucing up the interiors and sorting out the mechanical problems.

Can't speak too much on GS and IS models. Heard the 2006 GS was the beginning of a new generation and had major issues with carbon buildup and a bad water pump. Go check the forums over there if you're interested.

2010 for the RX and 2013 for every other model is when they went to that mouse-like controller. To me, having to mess around with a controller while driving isn't my version of a well thought out car. You may think it's good. Only way to know is to drive one.

2018 saw Lexus do away with their legendary V8 in the LS. Instead they went to a V6 with a turbo. Not nearly as smooth, not nearly as refined, not nearly as luxurious, and I can tell you it's not going to be nearly as reliable. The turbo will need replaced at some point, probably around 150-200k miles depending on driving habits. The interior also shrank considerably. Several people on here will tell you the older LS 460 was a better all-around car.

The GX and LX are quite nice. Seeing as how I drive over 30k miles a year, I wouldn't want to put that kind of money into $5/gallon gas. If you love SUV's, any of these are really strong and will last forever. Just get one with a V8. None of that turbo 6-cylinder nonsense.

 

2007ish ES was a joke, its interior was terrible and aged even worse. Huge step down from its predecessor.

Probably true for most of Lexus lineup of that era.

 

You pay for what you get….you want a V8, then it will cost you money to drive one….don’t want to pay $5 a gallon, there is always a lower tier V6 or even a I4 and back again there are 3 cylinders. If you want full time 4WD then you get a V8

 

I don't agree with this. The LS460 is a great riding car, as is the 07-12 ES, and the later ES models too. The RX also is still a great riding car.

They went sportier with the LS in 2018 with the LS500, and the ES was arguably firmer from 13-15 but the refresh in 16 solved that.

 

We're probably splitting hairs, but the 2nd gen RX was smoother than the 3rd gen. The 1st and 2nd gen LS was smoother than the 3rd gen. The 4th gen ES was definitely smoother, since I drove a 2005 on a long test drive and compared it to a 2010 (not the one I bought)

 

It was, but that was improved in the 4th gen. 2nd st and 3rd gen LS were not smoother than the 4th gen (I had all 3), 4th gen ES was slightly softer sprung than the 5th gen ES but overall I thought the 5th gen ES rode and drove considerably better (also had both).

Its hard to compare them when they are this old, because they become variable, but I owned all the cars we're talking about (other than the RX, but I drove a lot of RXs as loaners) from new.

Its important to realize thay "soft" does not always equal good. For instance the LS430 was more softly sprung than both the LS400 and LS460, but I liked the ride of it the least. Same with the 4th gen ES and 5th gen ES, the 4th was sprung a little more softly but overall I much preferred my 2010 ES350 to my 2003 ES300.

The ride I really like is a super refined glasslike ride but not a car that has huge body roll and squat and dive and floats all over the place.

 

An echo of the '90-'00 releases like the LS, GS and SC. My perception were the days when Toyota was pursuing developing a product that was of "Toyota" reliability yet met certain Euro buyers criteria. The low stressed engine to achieve longevity even with mature tech was a Toyota formula. Interiors JDM with a bit of western design familiarity. The 'LS430 till '06.

An aside, I'd pick Toyota from the '82-'88 with '85 being a good median year for the line-up: RWD Corolla, Celica, Supra, Cressida, 4 Runner, SR5 pickup, Starlet, etc. Our LS400 is nice yet the 85-88 Cressida was an equally fantastic solid sedan.

 

3rd gen RX had adaptive variable suspension. So it probably helped a lot. More rubber on the tires at that time as well

 

Great points and I agree with all of them including desired ride. I would differ in that for me it need to be like glass or extremely direct/I can feel everything instantly at each corner.