Never agree to a "easy" job....
CL Community Team
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,339
Likes: 600
From: IL
A bit of advice for those of you who like wrenching - do not ever use stainless steel bolts and nuts. unless it's a marine application and you absolutely have to. Also, never use any kind of power tools to tighten them, only hand tools, and go slow and use anti seize paste. Stainless steel fasteners seem attractive to the unsuspecting, but they suffer from galling - basically damaging threads, and often once you get the bolt and nut tight, you won't be able undo them. It's much less problematic if you use stainless bolts in combination with non stainless nuts, and vice versa.
For automotive application, use grade 8 fasteners only.
For automotive application, use grade 8 fasteners only.
However for outdoor non-automotive applications, I use square-drive stainless steel deck screws for everything, and an impact driver to run them down. Total overkill from a value perspective, but they're still perfect and easy to remove after 10 years of sitting out in the weather.
Agree with everything you said. Grade 8 (or 5 if it's not a high-torque application) is perfect for automotive uses, would never consider stainless unless for aesthetic reasons (think billet fuel filler door).
However for outdoor non-automotive applications, I use square-drive stainless steel deck screws for everything, and an impact driver to run them down. Total overkill from a value perspective, but they're still perfect and easy to remove after 10 years of sitting out in the weather.
However for outdoor non-automotive applications, I use square-drive stainless steel deck screws for everything, and an impact driver to run them down. Total overkill from a value perspective, but they're still perfect and easy to remove after 10 years of sitting out in the weather.
I learned the hard way on my motorcycle - mounted the cargo rack with 4 stainless bolts, and saddle bags with 4 more stainless bolts. Bought a few bottles of wine at a winery in Long Island, put them in the saddle bags, and one bottle broke on the ride back. Went to take off the saddle bag to clean it up, and the bolts would not undo. Long story short, out of the 4 saddle bag bolts three were welded shut, and on the cargo rack 2 out of 4, had to grind them off. I've replaced them with grade 8 yellow chromate zinc coated bolts.
Grinding these off in such tight spot, and trying not to damage anything took a lot of cussing and mentioning their mother. I'm pretty sure my neighbors were enjoying watching the show, lol.
Another bit of advice that may not be obvious to those who are new to wrenching - if you are using a grinder, always protect glass, metal, and painted surfaces from the sparks, otherwise the sparks will essentially sandblast them. Also, protect flammable surfaces with a welding blanket.
Grinding these off in such tight spot, and trying not to damage anything took a lot of cussing and mentioning their mother. I'm pretty sure my neighbors were enjoying watching the show, lol.
Another bit of advice that may not be obvious to those who are new to wrenching - if you are using a grinder, always protect glass, metal, and painted surfaces from the sparks, otherwise the sparks will essentially sandblast them. Also, protect flammable surfaces with a welding blanket.
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,096
Likes: 1,740
From: Ohio
Good advice, I use anti-seize on anything and everything I take apart unless it requires locktite or is an internal fastener in the engine or trans, those get what is spec.
Stainless hardware is fine if you anti-seize but usually isn't needed for anything that is not cosmetic. If it's used you should space it away from anything else with rubber shims and again make sure the threads are anti-seized
Wheels NEED to be manually TQed in at least two passed by hand with a TQ wrench, you run so many risks not doing so. Wheel TQ numbers and tire pressures also change based on how fast you are going to drive. 100+ speeds and it says directly in the 430s manual to up PSI by 3-6 depending on tire type and increase wheel TQ to 90
Same with 460 international manuals, up PSI by 3 and wheel TQ to 110.
Higher wheel TQ will run increased risk of warping the rotor hat if you get it super hot.
Stainless hardware is fine if you anti-seize but usually isn't needed for anything that is not cosmetic. If it's used you should space it away from anything else with rubber shims and again make sure the threads are anti-seized
Wheels NEED to be manually TQed in at least two passed by hand with a TQ wrench, you run so many risks not doing so. Wheel TQ numbers and tire pressures also change based on how fast you are going to drive. 100+ speeds and it says directly in the 430s manual to up PSI by 3-6 depending on tire type and increase wheel TQ to 90
Same with 460 international manuals, up PSI by 3 and wheel TQ to 110.
Higher wheel TQ will run increased risk of warping the rotor hat if you get it super hot.
Good advice, I use anti-seize on anything and everything I take apart unless it requires locktite or is an internal fastener in the engine or trans, those get what is spec.
Stainless hardware is fine if you anti-seize but usually isn't needed for anything that is not cosmetic. If it's used you should space it away from anything else with rubber shims and again make sure the threads are anti-seized
Stainless hardware is fine if you anti-seize but usually isn't needed for anything that is not cosmetic. If it's used you should space it away from anything else with rubber shims and again make sure the threads are anti-seized
Also, anti-seize doesn't necessary solve the problem with stainless, once these fasteners are torqued down, chances are the threads are already damaged and you won't be able to undo them. It is fine if its something that is being permanently bolted together, but for something that has to allow for disassembly, avoid stainless.
Good advice, I use anti-seize on anything and everything I take apart unless it requires locktite or is an internal fastener in the engine or trans, those get what is spec.
Stainless hardware is fine if you anti-seize but usually isn't needed for anything that is not cosmetic. If it's used you should space it away from anything else with rubber shims and again make sure the threads are anti-seized
Wheels NEED to be manually TQed in at least two passed by hand with a TQ wrench, you run so many risks not doing so. Wheel TQ numbers and tire pressures also change based on how fast you are going to drive. 100+ speeds and it says directly in the 430s manual to up PSI by 3-6 depending on tire type and increase wheel TQ to 90
Same with 460 international manuals, up PSI by 3 and wheel TQ to 110.
Higher wheel TQ will run increased risk of warping the rotor hat if you get it super hot.
Stainless hardware is fine if you anti-seize but usually isn't needed for anything that is not cosmetic. If it's used you should space it away from anything else with rubber shims and again make sure the threads are anti-seized
Wheels NEED to be manually TQed in at least two passed by hand with a TQ wrench, you run so many risks not doing so. Wheel TQ numbers and tire pressures also change based on how fast you are going to drive. 100+ speeds and it says directly in the 430s manual to up PSI by 3-6 depending on tire type and increase wheel TQ to 90
Same with 460 international manuals, up PSI by 3 and wheel TQ to 110.
Higher wheel TQ will run increased risk of warping the rotor hat if you get it super hot.
Last edited by lobuxracer; Dec 2, 2021 at 10:56 AM.
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There's nothing I can find in TIS about increasing lug nut torque. Most Toyota/Lexus models use the same studs and require 103 Nm (76 ft-lb) torque and strangely enough, the 2006 LS430 owner's manual shows 76 ft-lb but incorrectly shows both 105 Nm and 103 Nm as equivalents. My (pretty pricey) Snap-On Tech Angle torque wrench shows 103 Nm is the same as 76 ft-lb.
Last edited by lobuxracer; Dec 2, 2021 at 11:01 AM. Reason: removed broken URL link
2% is generally accepted as reasonable. 90 ft-lb is 18% over. That's not acceptable. I see this a lot on Toyota forums - I torque mine to 90 ft-lb because I think it's better. But these people know nothing of Young's modulus or elastic and plastic deformation, and then are bewildered when their pretty soft OEM studs stretch and fail. If you want to run 90 ft-lbs, get studs made for that. The OEM studs aren't.
CL Community Team
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,339
Likes: 600
From: IL
2% is generally accepted as reasonable. 90 ft-lb is 18% over. That's not acceptable. I see this a lot on Toyota forums - I torque mine to 90 ft-lb because I think it's better. But these people know nothing of Young's modulus or elastic and plastic deformation, and then are bewildered when their pretty soft OEM studs stretch and fail. If you want to run 90 ft-lbs, get studs made for that. The OEM studs aren't.
2% is generally accepted as reasonable. 90 ft-lb is 18% over. That's not acceptable. I see this a lot on Toyota forums - I torque mine to 90 ft-lb because I think it's better. But these people know nothing of Young's modulus or elastic and plastic deformation, and then are bewildered when their pretty soft OEM studs stretch and fail. If you want to run 90 ft-lbs, get studs made for that. The OEM studs aren't.
Not what I was saying. They have both listed in the owner's manual as equivalents. They're not. Would it hurt to torque to 105 Nm vs. 103 Nm? No. But if you're preparing documentation, it should be consistent and the conversions should be accurate.
Must have been prepared by an American, I dont see Japanese or Germans making such wide allowance. 😂
CL Community Team
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,339
Likes: 600
From: IL
