Totally agree. It's actually interesting- back when Mercedes' old CEO Dieter Zetsche was still in the hot seat, he mentioned that drivetrains had long since been a non-issue with consumers. They just wanted the car to accelerate a certain way with varying sound expectations depending on the model. Their main focus was the interior experience. And that was before the EV onslaught.

 

For the clear majority of buyers, Zetsche was correct. Comfort usually outweighs sport-orientation.

 

The issue is the old engines don't provide the benefits they are looking for. Fuel economy doesnt compare to vehicles with more modern powertrains, throttle and power response lags behind cars with forced induction, etc

 

I think new engine tech + what buyers desire depends on the brand.

 

How is it not true? The IS-F had 416 hp and the IS500 has what, 471?

 

I think buyers universally want better fuel economy and better power delivery.

 

I agree on fuel economy for sure. Power delivery I think they will accept lesser/same if cost and $$ are all involved depending on brand and model.

Lexus was very smart with the new IS500, keep a high profit engine design from a decade earlier…as they cancel out the GS-F.

 

The IS500 is a niche vehicle, thats a different story. BUT you are starting to see their 3.5L V6 really showing its age relative to its peers.

 

from a legal point of view, yes, you can’t take them to court for saying that. But in practice, both cars do 0-60 in mid 4s, no difference whatsoever.

 

Are we talking about power or acceleration times here? Acceleration times can be affected in many ways from transmission gearing to tires to the weather. Lexus never claimed this is the fastest accelerating IS yet.

 

Some people, in certain segments, yearns for and wants an old school engine feel or just a more mechanical feeling vehicle like the GX, 4Runner and Tacoma. How 12yr old vehicles still set sales records says something. Similarly, despite the old V8, the excitement around the IS500 is real.

 

What would you take Toyota to court for? They are not lying in any way.

 

I don't. The government wants better fuel economy way more than we buyers do.

Buyers want whatever awesome stuff we'd have if things didn't take a turn to ****. Power delivery was fine before FI went mainstream. All these years later, 2.0ts still irritate me and I would never be able to get used to it, at least Lexus' version. You understand about V8s, you bought one.

(This post isn't meant to be political, but CAFE is what it is.)

 

That just isn't true. If you look at any study that looks into what consumers look for in a vehicle fuel economy is always at or near the top of the list. We are enthusiasts, the vast majority of buyers are not enthusiasts.

 

That's true but also some of the fuel saving measures are horrendous that IDK how anyone could care for, like start/stop. GM V8s started getting finicky with cylinder deactivation years back, even on then-modern V8s.

I believe they say your Mercedes is seamless with the start/stop, that's about the only car I've heard that about.

The only way I could tolerate that is if I could tell absolutely literally no difference, that anything was happening at all.

If CAFE didn't exist I still think cars would be cleaner than ever, but we'd still have plenty of big NA engines and V8s left.