You are very rude and frankly calling me a liar, just like how you refused to believe that there are Land Crusiers and LXs all over the freaking place here because of your sales numbers or whatever numbers being touted then.

I don’t live here and drive the streets or anything and haven’t for years, what do I know. I must be imagining it for cool points on CL.

I SEE LOTS OF V8 X7s HERE.

 

I'm not calling you a liar, but the numbers are the numbers. Even if every X7 in your town is a 50i, they still only make up 12% of the X7s sold. Knowing my stuff doesn't make me rude, the sales figures and take rates are out there to find, all you have to do is google them. Thats why I always am so confident in what I say, because I research it before I say it.

From BMW Blog:

GX Sales:




GLE Sales:




Of course there is still a market for a vehicle like the GX, but its not a huge market, its a niche market. Going to a 6 cyl will not hurt GX sales.

Like it or not, people less and less want V8s. The lack of availability is because of lack of demand, manufacturers build what sells. If everybody wanted V8s, they would build the V8s. Why would dealer buyers stock what people don't want?

 

Now I'm not a Board-Certified Psychologist*, but I do know a textbook case of Frequency Illusion/Baader-Meinhoff Phenomenon/Red Car Syndrome/Confirmation Bias when I see one.















*But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night

 

For me, the GX was always an interesting vehicle. I almost bought one on two separate occasions, first generation only. I find the styling and features of that one more in line of what I like over the 2nd.

What killed that decision each time was gas mileage. Driving sedans my whole life that almost each of them approached or exceeded better than 30 mpg on the highway (in some cases close to 40 when I had my Accord), it would have been a very difficult pill to swallow being stuck in a vehicle that got at best 17 or 18. The extra utility of being in an SUV, higher up, a sweet looking vehicle, etc just wasn't quite worth the drastically lower gas mileage compared to what I was used to my entire driving life.

If they had offered the GX with a V6 option that got 24 on the highway, then I'm sure the take rate would have been considerably higher. After all, it was right around the time the GX debuted when gas started to go up significantly (starting in 04 and continuing through mid 2008) and a lot of folks didn't want anything to do with that.

 

Sales numbers don't tell the whole story. Like I mentioned earlier, they may be selling less V8s, but odds are those V8s are much higher optioned and selling at higher profits than i4/i6 models.

Sure they may sell a bunch of i4 GLEs or i6 X7s, but much more of those are bound to be lightly optioned leases, than fully loaded finance purchases like V8s.

There absolutely is value to a carmaker to sell these higher-output engines, it brings in customers with bigger wallets. Let alone, the M and AMG trims as well.

 

As an owner of both gen GX’s I loved the V8 because I’m an enthusiast but it should also be noted that there also isn’t an engine option, it only comes with a V8. I wonder if there was an I-6TT that was $10k cheaper what the take rate on the GX would be. Remember the second gen GX didn’t sell well for the first couple of years as noted in the sales chart above, likely because the price was raised over $10k from the prior gen and it was ugly. Then they refreshed the body with the spindle and dropped the price $10k and made a true base version and it started selling in large numbers.


As for the X7, I see way more 40i’s around than 50i’s and it’s not close. I was up in Lake Placid this weekend and I was shocked to see another M50i because I rarely see them.

 

Dealerships don't care if they are leases or finance deals, they get paid all the same. In fact they prefer leasing because the profit from the lease is high and they get to sell another car in 3 years.

I believe these carmakers know what they are doing. They wouldn't be downsizing engines and doing away with V8s if that didn't make business sense for them to do. All of the data we have shows that fuel economy is #1 for buyers, performance isn’t even on the list. Of course with luxury and performance cars the criteria shifts but we see what manufacturers are making and what buyers are buying…

Be happy MB and BMW still have a business model that includes these engines, but they will be in fewer and fewer models because demand just isn’t there.

 

it's not that they want one less and less, it's that they're not willing to pay the price premium to get it, given how good turbo 4s and 6s have become.

LOL

yeah, V8's are 'popular' in the GX and older LX because that's all you can get.

it would be huge, just like it is for bmw, mercedes, audi, etc. but it's hypothetical because the v8 will be gone next gen.

it's also due to regulation and car makers putting the v8's in more loaded or more performance oriented models and how much better 4 and 6 cylinder engines have become. i remember when a friend who's had one mb e-class after another took me for a spin in the last one he got and i told him the engine was remarkable for a 4 cylinder, and he didn't know (or care), but was surprised to learn that.

again, they've pushed the v8 to their 'niche' (i.e., expensive) vehicles, so obviously demand is lower and to the more discriminating enthusiast (or just rich, buy the best) buyer. but yeah, as the ev stampede continues, the v8 will die off.

 

the slow sales 2010 had also be the result of the lasting effects of the Great Recession as well. I’d have to look but I think Lexus sales were down significantly in those years. And the bland and boring styling of Lexus (Toyota as well) at that time was a huge determinant to sales.

 

I’m in utter disbelief you’re even needing to argue this. We have hard data here and we’re still going off what someone sees in their neighborhood? This is a rehash of a discussion we’ve already had in this forum anyways.

I’m just glad automakers are giving us a last chance to buy V8’s. We have entered the end of an era for sure but at least the remaining V8s are all great in their own way.

 

Any cure??

 

I'm not posting this to argue or debate this issue, or to call out anyone. It's been discussed many times on this forum and others I've been on. The numbers are all there, published and clear. Most average consumers just don't buy the V6 and V8 options anymore. Since the early 2000's except for trucks, I've seen the number of V8's disappear. The Camry is a perfect example of this, it's still offered in V6, yet most buyers opt for the 2.5L Inline four. When I was shopping for a Honda in 2018, I was curious why Honda got rid of the 3.5L for the Accord and downsized to the 2.0L and 1.5L turbo for the 10th gen, and my sales guy told me the 3.5L hardly sold in significant enough numbers, most buyers opted for the 2.4L four cylinder. If I based this on anecdotal evidence, than only three out of every 10 NEW cars on the road I see are V6 or V8, and most are 10 to 15 years old.

As others have stated, the newer turbocharged 4's do a really good job (as painful as it is for me to say this), with lots of accessible torque. I've driven a few like the Accord 2.0T, Civic Type R and Si, and even the Chevy Malibu with the 1.5L T and they are surprisingly nice, with power and torque being delivered very early in the power curve. Most people are just fine with the power and MPG's being delivered and opt for these engines...and world wide sales figures back this up

 

GX 550 is still on schedule, you should be seeing it soon, but save your credit check and check writing for December to Remember.

None of its SUV relations will be in any Toyota showrooms this year, as delays continually dominate everything. For each, I'll tell you 12 months and 18 months away.

Very very special vehicles on the way through the end of 2024 and let's not even talk about 2025.


​​​​​​I'm definitely not risking my credibility to ask them that question, as I'm expected to know better in my professional position and will just irritate the source. He's not a genie and even Akio Toyoda I wouldn't request this (off the record) for the midsize GX. (Maybe for LS/LX only)

The decisions were made long ago to the tune of tens of billions involved and not by just one person. That isn't their business and a waste of goodwill.

I get the same questions personally regarding the Navigator and Expedition (EcoBoost V6 only), since they are my area of pro expertise. Even smaller Bronco. I get annoyed at it, because it's beating a dead horse.

While I am diplomatic to not shutdown conversation and ghost someone, not everyone in my field is like that. Not going to be put in that position myself and ruin goodwill.

​​​​​Industry contacts are often extremely sensitive to any "undesirable" line of questioning and will cut you off, before you can even bang your gavel on your sentence period. One of the users on here has already ghosted me, having worked for Toyota in the past, for no good reason other than curious questions and sharing some past Toyota decisions publicly. And believe me, I noticed when they ignore my replies and fair enough.

I am very careful now not to scare anyone away. I know why the V8s are leaving and what happened during development to affect them, but if my Toyota sources see me talk about that here verbatim, forget about any remaining trust.

They're already taking a risk even trusting me. 60% of what I know about, never gets posted in here for that reason.

​​​​​I keep most of it private, like let's say the 2025 Camry, new pickup, and etc.

I understand that, but these decisions won't be reversed at this point. I would prefer all L signature flagship nameplates have V8 options, but not required at the GX level.

I can see many OEMs are copying what we did at Ford and dropping V8s. Our F-Series and Mustang are the sole exception currently. GM will GM of course.

Our much larger T3 SUVs in Expedition and Navigator have been V6 only since 2014. Toyota borrowed a page out of our playbook and took it further to the Tundra, something not intended originally.

Infiniti already vowed to do so back in 2012, that the 5.6 and 5.0 V8s were done and would see no further development. That will come full circular in 2024, when the VK56 finally dies in Patrol (Armada), QX80, and Titan. 5.0 already died in 2014.

GLE and X5 might have V8s, as well as Defender, but unfortunately the situation is just different. Lexus badge just doesn't carry as much for certain buyers, who don't care for any premium Asian nameplates above a certain price range. Genesis figured that out too, as did Kia.

If MB wanted to put a V12 in the GLE, they could do it, because someone in Eastern Europe will buy into that sooner than any Lexus product. Asian brands as always being the bargain choice in the minds of stubborn folk globally, has rendered the business case of any new V8 useless.

Lexus doesn't even sell everywhere globally, the same way BMW and MB do, which limits options due to smaller volume.

There are times when it becomes obvious some buyers want the rarest thing out there, which isn't as popular and expect business cases to be justified around their desires to be unique, when volume and improving fleet averages is more important. My father as a Jaguar and Bentley customer (over 2 decades), reasoned that way regarding the last Jaguar XJ and hated the Mulsanne and Flying Spur. He never forgave Rolls Royce for the 2003 Phantom, while his older brother loves buying them.

A new V8 initiated in the last 16 months, would not see light of day for 4 years. To start now, would take 6 years. It's definitely not a conversation to be had for anything not flagship level going forward.

I own a good number of V8s as a car collector and professional in this industry.

Anyone who really is that desperate for a Japanese NA V8 for 2024MY, needs to look at Nissan. After that, only Europe and America are the remaining holdouts, until VSS-T takes over at GM and HEMI gets killed.

I'm not going to discuss what we have planned at Ford, because that's proprietary information I'm sworn not to.

Exactly. People would have had 14 years to get that vehicle of choice and have to accept, a mid-level vehicle is not entitled to a V8

The TTV6 needs to achieve better economies of scale across the company, since for a long time, only the LS offered it. No other car models do.

2020 GS 500 was likely coming in Summer 2019, which stupidly posed an issue for the dumbass idea to make the flagship 2018 LS, V8-free. So they cancelled the GS.

Didn't make sense to offer the UR 4.6 or 5.7 with less torque and power than the 3.4TT V6. The decision to not develop a Dynamic Force NA V8 was made 8 years ago. 1UR and 3UR remain unsuitable for continuation, compared to ****-*** under review.

Exactly, very well stated. I do know what happened with bigger plans for V8s, from privately shared insight. Hard to share, as Lexus corporate might descend on this forum like a pack of wolves from the complete story with no redactions.

 

The whole "red car syndrome" has been beaten to death on here also, which I don't agree with either. I check out every single car I see or that I can get a glance at.

Of course there are more 40s but I do read these forums too and I'm telling you, there are plenty of V8 X7s here. Let me repeat this again, it's a heavy V8 truck/SUV area here. I think that's a Southern thing at least part of it. X7 is very popular here and I'm always right behind them staring at the badge.

 

Good. I don't want you to get into any trouble, of course. But Lexus should read these forums for feedback. We were ALL dead on about the LS500.