I hope this isn't too far off topic but has the Lexus no haggle dealership concept (Lexus Plus?) been discontinued? I searched but didn't see anything definite.

 

Then why not get one of them?

 

I'd rather get a 2022 if possible.

 

Oh right. Updated infotainment.

 

In my research, I have found there is much much more to it that this, although some of these are key factors. The thing is, to my mind, if you don't have $400 to your name, you have no business buying a new brand new car. But, that's my opinion and opinion has no place in a thesis.

Used car dealers like carmax do zero down all the time, if you have decent credit. I have bought many many many used cars with zero down. My wife's Accord and my LS included. USAA loaned me $10k to buy the LS (12 y/o at the time) at 2.9% for 36 months, who on earth wouldn't take that? I'll invest my money in other things that don't depreciate, and I did, then paid it off in about 6 months with the profits.

as for not wanting to wait, the 5P's will solve most of that:

Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss-Poor
Performance

If one plans ahead, one doesn't have to wait until their car is a money-pit. According to my research, your reason #4 has more to do with it than the others.

Am I to understand that you don't consider this a good thesis topic? Do you not think the franchise dealership business model needs drastic change? I do. Especially with times changing the way they have in the last 2 years. In any case, your feedback on this topic is much appreciated
I have not either

 

Pretty much.

All of the 2021's they have seem to have captains chairs too which I'm not horribly interested in. There is one with ML and Captains Chairs that has my interest.

 

Its just a very challenging time to be a buyer. Just wait this out if you can

 

Another poster noted the other day in a related thread that Lexus dealers anecdotally have gone to no-haggle pricing, presumably at MSRP, in the current shortages.

 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge about being able to buy used cars with zero down. You've made me better informed than when I started reading this thread.

But I have to admit, some of your comments about working-class Americans leave me a bit uneasy. Comments like saying one-third of Americans "have no business" considering a new car (now, the implications of that statement for the auto industry are definitely a worthy topic for a thesis). Or that they don't have money because they're simply "****-poor planners." Many pressed their old car to the wall because it was a new car or the rent.

Without trying to suggest that everyone out there is savvy with money, I think the more central story is that we've gotten to a point as a nation where so many are so financially pressed, they HAVE to be brilliant money managers just to afford the middle-class basics that any working person could take for granted just a couple of decades ago. When I read that 1/3 of all Americans lack the cash to handle a $400 expense, the lesson I take away from it isn't that they're all inferior to me. Rather, it suggests to me that one can't live decently on the pay from clerking at Walmart and jockeying for Uber, which are the kinds of jobs our economy is creating. While I'm lucky enough to be in a financially comfortable position that's probably a little like yours, I'm very reluctant to be so severe in my judgment of others.

 

there's so much material on CL for this. these 2 threads alone...

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...practices.html

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...nd-buying.html

and this guy's videos (Kevin Hunter) on car buying and all the tricks of the dealers trade are excellent.

example:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bLre5s2Yf9o

link to his channel but looks like CL doesn't display it right so will leave off protocol
youtube.com/c/KevinHunter

 

Yeah I'm just going to wait it out.

I actually wound up chatting with the GM of a more local dealer and even after telling him what was going on with my Nori Green he had his Sales Manager send me a spec sheet for an incoming GX. The GM said they don't do any kind of markups, no BS fees, and no documentation fee. They will also deliver it to me for free as I'm within 200 miles of them.

He was a cool guy and when I told him that I had talked to them about a month ago the lady I was working with would say one thing then change it and told me they found a GX when they didn't that I just decided to keep looking. I told him if he didn't want to work with me because of that I totally understood.

He said thato was working with the new person and that she decided selling vehicles wasn't for her.

I believe I will get a GX at some point and am completely fine with not getting the Nori Green at this point.

 

I'm not judging anyone. The simple fact is, if you take opinion out of it, and go solely based on fact, nobody needs a brand-new car. Not one person. A brand-new car is a want, but we do need people to buy them so there are used cars on that market. However, the 2 markets are not the same, at least not for the purposes of this topic.

As far as me being critical of others, I'll admit, my current financial situation is different than most folks. Be that as it may, the dedication, perseverance, and sacrifice it took me to get here is not up for debate. And if I can equip myself with the skills, knowledge and training it requires and persevere, make the sacrifices, then anyone can. 7 years ago I was just a high school graduate. Today, I own an operate 2 successful small businesses, hold 3 degrees and am about to grab my fourth. Nobody did that but me, and furthermore, nobody really even helped me with any of it, and to suggest that any person in America isn't capable of the same kind of change (maybe not the exact same thing) is laughable. The same people that cry about that are the ones that think the world owes them something. News flash, the world doesn't owe anybody anything, and very very few (if any) American's are successful simply by being lucky.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anyone is inferior to me. I said if they are, it is largely, if not entirely, due to choices they have or haven't made. There is not one single person in this country that isn't allowed to attend school. Even post-secondary institutions (barring the highly exclusive ones) don't turn people away. Everyone can get a student loan or FASFA (the latter if they qualify). Some people can join the military and pay for it that way. The ones that can't due to physical or mental issues, or age, can explore those other avenues. Every life is a product of the choices that person makes at the most fundamental level. I know lots of different people from all walks of life and the ones who are successful aren't successful because of where they were born or what they look like. They're successful because they put their nose to the grindstone and did what had to be done to better themselves and their lives, and they (like me) make no apologies for it.

That's like the phrase "Must be nice" Hearing that pisses me right off. Yeah, it is nice. You know what wasn't nice? Laying in a human-feces-infested ditch in Iraq waiting for mortars to land on my head. Working 20 hours, sleeping for 2, pulling a 2 hour guard shift, then working another 20 hours. And not just any kind of work. The physical, backbreaking, laboring kind. 30+ mile walks in 80lbs of gear with 40lbs in a backpack in sweltering 120F temps. Watching your squad leader step on a buried IED in front of you and when the red mist and dust clears, only a crater and a helmet with some brain matter remain. Past the military (because to an extent, the military is a choice one makes. Once you're in though, you don't have a choice), working 100+ hour work weeks after I left the service for **** pay with no degree, simply because that's what was necessary. The struggles of working all that overtime while taking 21 credit hours per semester in undergrad coursework, so I could get my degree quicker and better myself for my family. None of that **** was nice. None of it was fun.

So yeah, it's absolutely nice. 98% of America has no idea what "bad" really is, and 1% of the 2% that do, have only seen it by traveling abroad as tourists. When you're there living in the same mud huts with the kids, kicking a soccer ball that is flat and been patched so many times its unrecognizable, and giving those same kids bottled water because the source of their drinking water in their village is also the same canal that the sewage runs into, then will you know what "bad" really is. Sorry, the "woe is me" sob stories just don't hold weight with me. I am nobody special, just some random average guy, with average high school grades, graduated in the middle of my class, had a short (by some standards) and relatively average military career, and rather than get out and sit around on my ***, I decided I was going to make something of myself. The beauty of the American dream is that, if you can dream it, you can do it. My dad had a saying, and it's one I live by. "Can't, never did nothin'".

Also, if the government would take its damn hands out of the pockets of the middle class, the whole economic system could shift drastically. But alas, that's a pipe dream.

[/rant]

Annnnnywayyyys, so yeah, new cars, not used. I get most folks need a car. nobody needs a brand-new one.

 

I know, that's why I am here.

 

Consider, though, that most people don't have the experience you had in the Army Motorpool and your ASE training. If a CHECK ENGINE light comes on, for instance, they don't know how to hook up a scanner and get a code....or, necessarily, the proper way to deal with that code. Working on today's vehicles is not like it was when I learned to drive, where, for instance, if a battery ran dead, you simply took off the two terminals with a half-inch or 10 MM wrench, unscrewed the hold-down clamp, cleaned the terminal-holes with the two-piece steel brush, cleaned the mounting-plate, set the new battery down, reattached the clamp, filled it with water (or acid and water), and reattached the terminals. Today, if you try that without elaborate procedures, you affect much of the car's electronics, and can screw things up. The days of shade-tree mechanics are pretty much gone. So, for people who don't want to (or can't) risk getting stuck with someone else's problems, or can't risk screwing their car up by not doing a job correctly (or taking it to a shop that is perhaps dishonest or unscrupulous), as I see it at least, a brand-new vehicle, for them, is not really a "want"........for the most part, it is a "need". And, yes, as you alluded to, there first has to be new cars before one can have used cars....a used car, by definition, has been previously owned and/or titled/licensed.

 

‘And to think that there are some that want to do away with the national anthem a sporting events. Very sad!