Back to getting new vehicles at dealerships, from what I've seen, one BIG contributing factor for the problems today (and I feel sorry for these people, but many just didn't listen) is that too many people simply kept too many old vehicles too long, trying to constantly coax more and more time and miles out of Tired Old Betsy. Whether that was done because of the pandemic, difficult shopping conditions, difficult economic circumstances, budget-stretching, credit-score problems, waiting for new models to debut, emotional attachments to their old vehicles, or whatever have you, a number of people who are in a mess now could have avoided it by simply trading in or selling/donating Old Betsy and replacing it before this new-vehicle squeeze, excessive demand, and the computer-chip shortage created the mess this year. Just in my own section of our condo-courtyard, which contains maybe 20 town-houses, four or five of my close neighbors have recently had their luck run out, and come to me for advice with car-problems. One of them was an old 1Gen Ford Escape that started having problems with the 4-speed automatic and the O/D sensor. Another was a 2014 Outback that, although not that terribly old time-wise, has well over 100K on it, and CVT/wheel-bearing problems. Another is a 1999 Toyota RAV-4 that needs new struts and a significant water-leak repaired...if it is not excessive rust and can be repaired. Another, although, in fairness, it was beyond her control, was a Toyota Corolla that got totalled in an recent accident (fortunately, she's OK)...and will need to be replaced....she's driving a rental car. In the case of the Escape and the old RAV-4, I've been recommending their replacement for at least the last couple of years, but their owners simply didn't want to go shopping or spend the money. Seemed to be a case of simply not wanting to face (and act on) the inevitable. In the case of the Outback, some of the bill on the CVT and wheel bearings was covered by the factory on extended-warranties, but she also had to foot some of it, as it was over the limit.

Now, because they didn't replace their vehicles when it would have been much simpler and easier, they are in a jam, with no easy way out, short of paying for maybe-expensive repairs or maybe paying even more for a vehicle-replacement....assuming that we can find suitable new vehicles at all, especially at an affordable price. And that is part of the reason WHY demand is also excessive right now, chasing after a limited supply of new vehicles.....lots of people are having to replace Old Betsy, right now, because of just the luck of the draw.....recent problems that they didn't avoid by shopping sooner.

 

lots of judgment and virtue signaling there because you can afford to not keep cars a long time.

in my experience, most people who keep driving older cars do so because they cannot afford anything newer or they're not particularly interested in cars and just keep driving whatever they have until it's no longer tolerable.

 

I understand that point of view. I am not unsympathetic to those who cannot afford a new new car every few years. I myself could not afford a new car until my mid-20s, after I had been working several years. But, in the end, one must also be realistic about drawing a line between what they can't afford to do and can't afford NOT to do. And, sometimes, that line happens to roll on four wheels.

While I won't go into the details, because I consider it a private matter in my religion, and not something to broadcast all over the place, I also have been known to actually help some people financially with their new-vehicle purchases and/or on the down-payment.

 

Totally agree. And modern cars last a LONG time, pretty much every car you buy today can give you 10+ years of reasonably trouble free service.

 

Some vehicles do, some don't. And even if they do, the problem comes when people try to get 20 years out of them instead of ten. It ends up being like Cuba, where engines are started by touching two wires together LOL.

 

now you're making fun of desperate people in a communist run country?

in the u.s. and most democratic and prosperous nations, modern cars last a decade easily.

 

Oh, Please......get real. No, I'm NOT making fun of the people in Cuba. I'm pointing out, perhaps with some humor or irony, the results of being in a situation where one is trying to constantly extend the life of worn-out merchandise....particularly without spare parts. It bears some resemblance, (not totally by any means) to those here who are stuck, right now, with clunkers, for whatever reason, that probably should have been traded off or donated by now.

I'd also point out (without getting too deeply into the banned subject of politics) that the severe parts shortage for those old vehicles in Cuba was not necessarily caused by the Communist regime, but by two things......First, the fact that some of those cars pre-date even me (which is saying something, as I'm no Sping Chicken), and some parts simply are not available any more, period. Second, there was a economic boycott of the country for decades (still is, to some extent), and normal trade and shipping between them and us simply didn't exist.....where trade DID exist, it was generally by Black Market.

 

ok, back to dealership practices.

 

Thats just not true Mike, any car you buy today will last 10 years easily. Cars are more reliable and longer lasting today than they ever have been. Even 20 years...

And people who drive 20 year old vehicles, they drive them because they have to or because they just drive so little it doesn't make sense. Like my mother, she has my old 2003 ES with 220k miles on it. She could buy any vehicle she wanted, but it just doesnt make sense for her to spend money on a car since she drives it maybe 10 miles a week. Its in good shape and reasonably reliable...

Its best not to make judgements about what others "should" or "should not" do.

In any event back on topic, I'm not sure how people keeping cars a long time creates negative dealership practices...

 

Car dealers have the general reputation they have for very good reason. Easily one of the most unethical industries IMO. And the shady/unethical problems persist because manufacturers rarely hold them accountable for the appalling behavior. With that said my own experience has broadly been this: The more expensive the car, the fewer of those stupid sales games tend to get played and fewer of those bogus “mistakes” tend to happen.

 

"Reliable" is a relative term that has to be taken into proper context. Any vehicle (even a Fiat LOL) will last if you simply keep repairing or replacing parts that wear out....until the basic structure of the vehicle itself rots away from rust or corrosion. And, in some cases, even THAT can be addressed with frame-repair and/or restoration, although you are talking some real money for that.

But the average person doesn't want to be bothered with, or have the time for, that. They have other matters in life to take care of.


Last, we have not, to my knowledge, seen any of these laws in the U.S., but some places have (or are considering) laws that will not allow any vehicles more than ten years old to be registered.....they have to be replaced to be driven on public roads. Just who is going to pay for all of that is unclear ....dealerships aren't going to replace old cars for free. The objective, of course, is to get everyone into newer vehicles that don't pollute as much, get better mileage (or are alternate-fuel), and have up to date safety features.

 

And repairing an older vehicle is ALWAYS cheaper than replacing it with a new similar vehicle. You act as if a vehicle is disposable, cars 10+ years old have a lot of life left in them. Not everybody can or wants to spend $35,000+ on a new vehicle every 3 years. If I were in a position where I couldn't afford to replace my high end vehicle with a new similar vehicle or vehicle that I wanted, I would just keep what I have. I'd rather drive an older higher end car than a new lesser car. Like my buddy who traded his S550 in on a CX-5. I wouldn't have done that I would have fixed my S550.


Thats absurd, and will never happen here.

 

If that were the case, insurance companies would not total vehicles.

I just got a personal E-Mail from an old co-worker of mine whose old Hyundai was totaled for only $1700 and a simple fender-bender. He told me he was sorry he settled for that...now they are minus one vehicle, as the insurance took it.

I usually don't either....4-6 is average for me, more so now than in the past. I would have kept the Lacrosse several more years except that my ends changed.


Frankly, I think you would have gotten the new LS if Lexus had not taken some of the refinement and engine-cylinders out of the design. That's more or less the impression you gave in your posts.


In California, ANYTHING can happen LOL.

 

Body repairs and mechanical repairs are totally different, you know what I'm talking about.

But thats a good point, your friend is upset he got $1,700 and has no car. Because he would rather have the car than $1,700. Why doesnt he just go out and spend $35,000 for a new one and be happy he gets to have a new car? Because he was perfectly happy with his old Hyundai.

I would have, but the point stands. I would keep my old LS vs downgrading to a lesser new car.

 

You misunderstood. Repairing a used car is almost always cheaper than replacing it with a new car. I have a 9 year old Mazda; if I had a "significant" repair, I would likely buy a new car --- meaning spend $25-$30K instead of $2-3K.