When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Sometimes it IS the other way around. I have seen, and shopped with, classic cheapskates, whose names/idents I would rather not use, who would haggle and argue until midnight rather than hand over one extra dollar to a dealership on the deal. IMO, completely preposterous. One person (a friend of my brother) DID argue till midnight LOL.....for a new Honda Cvic.
I have a friend who does this. He's been "banned" from a few big box and local electronics stores, and a Honda dealership (so far).
People get super picky when it comes to mundane stuff, yet they are happy to take whatever car is available on the lot instead of planning ahead and custom ordering one? Especially nowadays when there are so many options to chose from.
I think there's a misconception running through this thread that the people who buy from dealer stock are inferior human beings. It's a bit elitist, frankly.
There are a whole lot of people out there who don't care a damn about cars, but need one to get where they're going. If their car suddenly suffers a catastrophic failure, they have 1-1/2 or 2 jobs and a family and an employer who's going to be completely intolerant of even an temporary inability get to work, and a credit rating that won't let them buy used (remember that half of all Americans now don't have enough cash on hand for even a $400 emergency — and no, this isn't evidence of poor character either).
Just like Ford axing the Fusion while it was still selling 200,000 units a year despite no refresh, this announcement isn't about logic. It's a grandstand play to Wall Street that they're becoming more Tesla-like and less like "another stodgy car company," to temporarily goose the stock price. The real masters of American car companies now aren't customers, or dealers, or even their own CEOs. They're venture capitalists and pension fund managers who want to see the stock price go up RIGHT NOW. If you want to indict someone for pathological impatience, skip the consumers and look straight at these characters instead. Ford is selling them a pie-in-the-sky scenario that they'll wave a wand and magically earn skyrocketing margins by getting MSRP on every vehicle they sell.
Will it work? Mostly no. Would I wait if I wanted a Raptor or a hybrid King Ranch or a Mustang GT? Probably. But if you need a family car today, would you wait for an Explorer or take a Santa Fe with a better warranty now from the Hyundai store down the street? Asking people to wait implies you have something worth waiting for. Although I'm not a fan of Tesla, they have real uniqueness, and that's why they get away with it. Coming from Ford, this is mostly just the usual bullsiht.
Last edited by LexFinally; Aug 4, 2021 at 07:30 AM.
I think there's a misconception running through this thread that the people who buy from dealer stock are inferior human beings. It's a bit elitist, frankly.
Totally agree. And, for many years (before the quality at the assembly plants got better in the last couple of decades), I had resolved to only buy from dealer-stock where I could see, thoroughly inspect, and test-drive a vehicle before I signed for it. I got burned so bad from ordering new GM and Chrysler products from the factory (mostly their FWD products, after the mid-70s) that I said enough was enough.
Today, of course, the average vehicle from most brands comes out of the factory in MUCH better shape than in those days......except for perhaps a couple of makes at the very bottom of the reliability-charts, like Land Rover and Fiat.
Totally agree. And, for many years (before the quality at the assembly plants got better in the last couple of decades), I had resolved to only buy from dealer-stock where I could see, thoroughly inspect, and test-drive a vehicle before I signed for it. I got burned so bad from ordering new GM and Chrysler products from the factory (mostly their FWD products, after the mid-70s) that I said enough was enough.
Today, of course, the average vehicle from most brands comes out of the factory in MUCH better shape than in those days......except for perhaps a couple of makes at the very bottom of the reliability-charts, like Land Rover and Fiat.
I special ordered 2 Ford Superduty trucks and it was easy. I ordered using X-Plan which is close to invoice price and limits dealer fees to $100. In addition I had a $3,000 Ford private offer and additional $1,500 in rebates. Special ordering was the only way to get the options I wanted and not get the options I didn’t want. The truck is used primarily to tow our 14,000 lb 5th wheel and I couldn’t find one anywhere in the country equipped exactly the way I wanted it.
By special ordering I was able to select maximize payload and maximize creature comforts.. I was able to choose my color, 18” wheels, A/T tires, axle ratio, LED Headlights, Upfitter switches, 5th wheel pro package, adaptive cruise, adaptive steering, etc and WITHOUT a moon roof.
I bought my first new car this way back in 1984 through Car/Puter in Brooklyn at a discount. I was very happy with the process, as I got exactly what I wanted. Car/Puter had a network of national dealerships they worked with. Yes, paper forms, etc., but it worked just fine.
I think there's a misconception running through this thread that the people who buy from dealer stock are inferior human beings. It's a bit elitist, frankly.
i don't see that point of view being expressed that way in here, and i don't think they're inferior at all.
There are a whole lot of people out there who don't care a damn about cars, but need one to get where they're going. If their car suddenly suffers a catastrophic failure, they have 1-1/2 or 2 jobs and a family and an employer who's going to be completely intolerant of even an temporary inability get to work, and a credit rating that won't let them buy used (remember that half of all Americans now don't have enough cash on hand for even a $400 emergency — and no, this isn't evidence of poor character either).
if they can't buy used due to bad credit, why can they buy new?
Just like Ford axing the Fusion while it was still selling 200,000 units a year despite no refresh, this announcement isn't about logic. It's a grandstand play to Wall Street that they're becoming more Tesla-like and less like "another stodgy car company," to temporarily goose the stock price. The real masters of American car companies now aren't customers, or dealers, or even their own CEOs. They're venture capitalists and pension fund managers who want to see the stock price go up RIGHT NOW. If you want to indict someone for pathological impatience, skip the consumers and look straight at these characters instead. Ford is selling them a pie-in-the-sky scenario that they'll wave a wand and magically earn skyrocketing margins by getting MSRP on every vehicle they sell.
that's a separate sidebar, but yes, of course, all publicly traded companies have to shill and pander for their shareholders. Nothing new there. In addition to vc and fund mgrs you can add hedge funds, day traders, etc.
if you need a family car today, would you wait for an Explorer or take a Santa Fe with a better warranty now from the Hyundai store down the street? Asking people to wait implies you have something worth waiting for. Although I'm not a fan of Tesla, they have real uniqueness, and that's why they get away with it. Coming from Ford, this is mostly just the usual bullsiht.
Not quite following all that, especially since you might have to wait 3-4 months for a tesla right now. Is it worth waiting for? For many sure, but as you say, if someone needs a car today, not going to work. But that's what used cars are for. If someone is so pegged (bad credit) then they're likely unable to buy new or used except at some high margin / bad credit used car lot.
So i think you're saying there should be new cars on lots because people who need a car now can't wait. If so, i don't entirely agree, there will always be TONS of used cars out there, plus private sale. There will also always (or for a very long time) be SOME new cars on dealer lots. I think jim farley is saying he wants to move away from the 'football field' full of new cars which ford themselves ends up having to provide incentives for to move which lowers their margins. And because those incentives have been part of the game for so long, it ends up making msrp's higher than they should be. Some claim it's just to line ford's pockets (build to order) but that's simply not true, they don't operate in a vacuum. Less dealer inventory will allow ford to be more competitive with LOWER prices, or maybe the same overall transaction price... put it this way.
today:
car msrp $40K, invoice $35K dealer discount $2K, mfr incentive $3K, customer pays $35K, dealer makes $3K, mfr received $32K net
tomorrow:
car msrp $37K, invoice $32K dealer discount $2K, mfr incentive $0K, customer pays $35K, dealer makes $3K, mfr receives $32K net
I special ordered 2 Ford Superduty trucks and it was easy. I ordered using X-Plan which is close to invoice price and limits dealer fees to $100. In addition I had a $3,000 Ford private offer and additional $1,500 in rebates. Special ordering was the only way to get the options I wanted and not get the options I didn’t want. The truck is used primarily to tow our 14,000 lb 5th wheel and I couldn’t find one anywhere in the country equipped exactly the way I wanted it.
By special ordering I was able to select maximize payload and maximize creature comforts.. I was able to choose my color, 18” wheels, A/T tires, axle ratio, LED Headlights, Upfitter switches, 5th wheel pro package, adaptive cruise, adaptive steering, etc and WITHOUT a moon roof.
I think there's a misconception running through this thread that the people who buy from dealer stock are inferior human beings. It's a bit elitist, frankly.
There are a whole lot of people out there who don't care a damn about cars, but need one to get where they're going. If their car suddenly suffers a catastrophic failure, they have 1-1/2 or 2 jobs and a family and an employer who's going to be completely intolerant of even an temporary inability get to work, and a credit rating that won't let them buy used (remember that half of all Americans now don't have enough cash on hand for even a $400 emergency — and no, this isn't evidence of poor character either).
If everyone is waiting fir their new Ford to be ordered…Ford would collapse. The vast majority of consumers cannot wait or will not wait.
I wonder if anyone actually seeks out the colour white. I’m amazed how many luxury brand cars are white. I can understand that cheaper cars like Corolla and Civic as it takes the emotional aspect out of it
YES, We seek White. My Lexus and my ford F250 are white. You thinking of a better Florida color?
My dad used to order his cars all the time back in the 50's and 60's, but back then there was a huge number of things you could spec, almost everything was an option. There were thick guides you would buy on the newstand that would list all the options and prices for all the different options, you would sit down and go through the lengthy list and decide what you wanted and needed. Big things like three or four different engines, manual or auto transmission (shifter on column or on the floor option) were obvious, but things like a cigarette lighter was an option, the radio (AM with no pushbuttons, AM with pushbuttons, AM/FM, AM/FM with 8-track or even no radio) was an option, single speed wiper or two speed wiper, a heater, etc, all of the things that are taken for granted today were options. You'd sit down with the salesguy and spec it all out, there was relatively little negotiating, so the order would go in and a few weeks later you would get a heads up that the car was in transit and a couple of days later the call would come that the car had arrived at the dealer. But I don't see the public wanting to go back to that, there are relatively few options that people would want to spec out these days compared to the past (things like sunroofs and other big margin options for the manufacturer/dealer are often not wanted), but everyone wants a/c, auto transmission, auto windows, cruise control, etc.
The last new car I bought was a 2015 Ford Focus ST. There were 3 basic trim levels (ST1, ST2 and ST3) and just a couple of other things like upgraded wheels and sunroof. I knew what color and trim level I wanted so I just did a search on Ford.com and and found two vehicles within 50 miles. Went in, test drove, negotiated price, got 72 month 0% financing, and drove home. Still have the vehicle but Ford dropped the Focus line in 2018 because they couldn't make money on small cars, even on a high spec ST which retailed for over $31k (couldn't compete with the WRX and GTI). Letting the buyer spec his car would be very inefficient and would not have helped things. Just don't see how this helps Ford.
Nice. Why is white the only color to get in Florida ?
White is a great color if you live somewhere with a lot of hot sunny weather because white reflects the suns ray's and doesn't absorb heat like black or other dark colors. This helps keep the temperature down inside the car.
White is a great color if you live somewhere with a lot of hot sunny weather because white reflects the suns ray's and doesn't absorb heat like black or other dark colors. This helps keep the temperature down inside the car.
So the white exterior sheet metal keeps the interior cooler?
