Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

Two people killed in fiery Tesla crash with no one driving

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-18-21, 05:54 PM
  #1  
tex2670
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
 
tex2670's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 10,118
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default Two people killed in fiery Tesla crash with no one driving

There's no sensor in the driver's seat or monitor that confirms there is an actual person in the seat??!!



https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/18/2...rash-no-driver

Two people killed in fiery Tesla crash with no one driving

Authorities said it took four hours to extinguish the fire
By Kim Lyons Apr 18, 2021, 1:01pm EDT KPRC2 HoustonAuthorities in Texas say two people were killed when a Tesla with no one in the driver’s seat crashed into a tree and burst into flames, Houston television station KPRC 2 reported.

The cause of the crash, which happened at about 9PM local time in Spring, Texas (near Houston), is under investigation. According to KHOU in Houston, first responders had to use 30,000 gallons of water over four hours to put out the fire, as the Tesla’s battery kept reigniting. Authorities tried to contact Tesla for advice on putting out the fire; it’s not clear whether they received any response.
Preliminary reports suggest the car was traveling at a high rate of speed and failed to make a turn, then drove off the road into a tree. One of the men killed was in the front passenger seat of the car, the other was in the back seat, according to KHOU. Harris County Precinct 4 Constable Mark Herman told KPRC that “no one was driving” the fully-electric 2019 Tesla at the time of the crash. It’s not yet clear whether the car had its Autopilot driver assist system activated.

Tesla didn’t respond to a request for comment on Sunday. The company dissolved its press office and doesn’t usually respond to media inquiries, however.
There have been at least 23 Autopilot related crashes under investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, but this appears to be the first fatal crash where there was no driver in the driver’s seat. Tesla has previously cautioned its customers that Autopilot is not an autonomous driving system and still requires constant attention to the road while in use. The company’s cars only check that attention with a sensor that measures torque in the steering wheel, though, leaving room for misuse — something the National Transportation Safety Board admonished Tesla for last year.

Tesla has previously provided guidance for first responders who encounter fires involving its EV batteries. Reignition of the battery can be a problem, because unlike gas-powered vehicles, even if the fire is extinguished, an EV battery still has stored energy. Tesla’s guidance suggests it’s better to let the fire burn out than continuing to try to put it out.

In the past, Tesla CEO Elon Musk has rejected calls from Tesla engineers to add better safety monitoring when a vehicle is in Autopilot, such as eye-tracking cameras or additional sensors on the steering wheel, saying the tech is “ineffective.” He said in 2018 that Tesla would regularly release safety data about its Autopilot feature, but added that “negative” press coverage about it might persuade customers not to use it.

“When there is a serious accident it is almost always, in fact maybe always, the case that it is an experienced user, and the issue is more one of complacency,” Musk said on a May 2018 call with investors. “They just get too used to it. That tends to be more of an issue. It’s not a lack of understanding of what Autopilot can do. It’s [drivers] thinking they know more about Autopilot than they do.”
tex2670 is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 06:14 PM
  #2  
Toys4RJill
Lexus Fanatic
 
Toys4RJill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON/NY
Posts: 31,478
Received 67 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Wow. Crappy for Tesla to design such a flaw

Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-18-21 at 06:20 PM.
Toys4RJill is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 06:20 PM
  #3  
EZZ
Lexus Test Driver
 
EZZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 7,460
Received 228 Likes on 171 Posts
Default

It's not an autonomous auto system. Tesla even says it's not. If Auto Pilot shuts off because it can't adapt to the situation, it alerts the driver to take over and lets the driver take control. If the driver moved over while the car is in motion and auto pilot can't adapt, it's the idiot drivers fault. Now it's Tesla's fault that some dumbass let a fancy cruise control take completely over? This is the same dumb thing where the dude died in autopilot playing video games.
EZZ is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 06:22 PM
  #4  
Toys4RJill
Lexus Fanatic
 
Toys4RJill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON/NY
Posts: 31,478
Received 67 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by EZZ
It's not an autonomous auto system. Tesla even says it's not. If Auto Pilot shuts off because it can't adapt to the situation, it alerts the driver to take over and lets the driver take control. If the driver moved over while the car is in motion and auto pilot can't adapt, it's the idiot drivers fault. Now it's Tesla's fault that some dumbass let a fancy cruise control take completely over? This is the same dumb thing where the dude died in autopilot playing video games.
‘It’s pretty crappy on Tesla not to have a safety feature preventing it. I’d expect it from Tesla.
Toys4RJill is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 06:30 PM
  #5  
Och
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (3)
 
Och's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 16,436
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

As long as they only killed themselves, everything is right with the world.
Och is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 06:34 PM
  #6  
EZZ
Lexus Test Driver
 
EZZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 7,460
Received 228 Likes on 171 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
‘It’s pretty crappy on Tesla not to have a safety feature preventing it. I’d expect it from Tesla.
When auto pilot fails to adapt, it expects the driver to take over and lets it know by loud dings and alerts on the screen. The driver is the safety system. It's like blaming Lexus for a person that falls asleep driving because they make boring cars. This isn't Tesla's fault
EZZ is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 06:36 PM
  #7  
RXSF
Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
RXSF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 12,055
Likes: 0
Received 74 Likes on 45 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
‘It’s pretty crappy on Tesla not to have a safety feature preventing it. I’d expect it from Tesla.
Im pretty sure other driver's assistance systems in other brands also dont detect if there is someone in the seat. I know Cadillac and the early LS600hHLs of the previous generation had the camera in the front to view the driver's attention, but I dont think my Mercedes distronic system does. All it depends on is someone touching the wheel from time to time.
RXSF is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 06:44 PM
  #8  
4TehNguyen
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
4TehNguyen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 26,059
Received 51 Likes on 46 Posts
Default

great

"According to KHOU in Houston, first responders had to use 30,000 gallons of water over four hours to put out the fire, as the Tesla’s battery kept reigniting"
4TehNguyen is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 06:45 PM
  #9  
Toys4RJill
Lexus Fanatic
 
Toys4RJill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON/NY
Posts: 31,478
Received 67 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by RXSF
Im pretty sure other driver's assistance systems in other brands also dont detect if there is someone in the seat. I know Cadillac and the early LS600hHLs of the previous generation had the camera in the front to view the driver's attention, but I dont think my Mercedes distronic system does. All it depends on is someone touching the wheel from time to time.
GM Super Cruise does detect the face. And has to be on. Not sure if it was in was on early models. But for this type of system to work, the car brands should have a safety back up. I would have expected Tesla to have such a fail safe.
Toys4RJill is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 06:48 PM
  #10  
tex2670
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
 
tex2670's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 10,118
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

My Hyundai Santa Fe can tell if I let go of the steering wheel for a few seconds. So how come a Tesla can’t tell there’s no driver? The passenger seat can detect a person for airbag deployment—same tech can be used.

This is 100% the owner’s fault, but the Tesla safeguards to determine if the AutoPilot conditions are met seem flawed if one of those conditions isn’t that there is an individual in the driver seat. Even if just for Tesla’s own legal protection—someone absolutely would sue Tesla for that. I bet the passenger’s family does.
tex2670 is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 07:01 PM
  #11  
Aron9000
Lexus Champion
 
Aron9000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: TN
Posts: 4,592
Received 28 Likes on 27 Posts
Default

I never have liked the way Tesla has marketed Autopilot. They market it like the cars can drive themselves and way oversell the capabilities of the feature. Also people are idiots and need protection from themselves. The driver facing camera like Cadillac's/GM supercruise that makes sure your eyes are on the road is simple technology that's been around in commercial vehicles/semi trucks for 15+ years now. Eyes aren't on the road, Autopilot disengages.
Aron9000 is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 07:09 PM
  #12  
EZZ
Lexus Test Driver
 
EZZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 7,460
Received 228 Likes on 171 Posts
Default

There are fail safes in Tesla's that force the driver to apply torque to the wheels for Auto Pilot to remain on. If you don't apply torque, the Auto Pilot slowly slows down the car to a stop and beeps at you endlessly. It's obvious the idiot driver cheated the system by having something else apply torque to the steering wheel for autopilot to remain on. Given that it has the torque applied to the wheel it assumes the driver is still there and paying attention so when an emergency situation comes up, it will disengage the system so the driver can control the car. I guess they found out the hard way that Autopilot disengages when it can't adapt to a situation.
EZZ is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 07:20 PM
  #13  
Toys4RJill
Lexus Fanatic
 
Toys4RJill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON/NY
Posts: 31,478
Received 67 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Aron9000
I never have liked the way Tesla has marketed Autopilot. They market it like the cars can drive themselves and way oversell the capabilities of the feature. Also people are idiots and need protection from themselves. The driver facing camera like Cadillac's/GM supercruise that makes sure your eyes are on the road is simple technology that's been around in commercial vehicles/semi trucks for 15+ years now. Eyes aren't on the road, Autopilot disengages.
Good post. Tesla should deactivate all autopilot functions for safety reasons. So dumb others have to share the road with such a flawed design. I think Super cruise has to have emergency braking on as well.
Toys4RJill is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 07:23 PM
  #14  
FatherTo1
Racer
 
FatherTo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 1,846
Received 115 Likes on 95 Posts
Default

It is an unfortunate and unnecessary loss of life, but responsibility lies with those operating the car and deciding to shift out of the driver’s seat. Whether it is Autopilot, GM Super Cruise, or Ford’s Blue Cruise, each system can be defeated.

If someone wants to outsmart a system of rules, they will find a way. Whether that is a dummy mannequin to cheat HOV lanes, or a photo to trick early facial recognition systems, or a weight on the steering wheel to simulate resistance, where there’s a will, there’s a way.

I am sure we will read news of human fails with GM and Ford’s implementations in time as more of their cars and technology hits mainstream. It doesn’t mean all those Level 2 systems are inherently dangerous. It simply means those are assist systems and still rely on a driver to be alert instead of trying to play games, completely zone out, or do stupid tricks to make a viral video.

I have used Autopilot on a 50-mile stretch of highway and it was very impressive. I have had it take an off-ramp, detected construction around a curve, and applied the brakes quicker than I reacted. I would not trust my life to Autopilot, but you’re not supposed to for any Level 2 assisted-driving system, whether it is Tesla, GM, Ford, or MB. The human still serves as the backup for any of these systems in the event there’s a software glitch, sensor failure, or camera being blocked.

Last edited by FatherTo1; 04-18-21 at 07:47 PM.
FatherTo1 is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 07:24 PM
  #15  
Och
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (3)
 
Och's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 16,436
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

It is stupid to shift blame from the driver to automaker, but on the other hand I kind of wish these stupid "self driving" systems are a couple of law suits from being banned. They encourage this type of irresponsible driver behavior.
Och is offline  


Quick Reply: Two people killed in fiery Tesla crash with no one driving



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:22 PM.