EV rationalization
Owners dont complain because clearly EVs work for them, but they work for very few people, and we're just voicing reasons why EVs don't work for us. Seeing how Porsche EV goes from claimed 210 mile range to 70 mile when driven hard in moderately cold weather is very discouraging. I have no interest in having to drive like a hypermiler worrying about the range.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
i'm sure there's lots where you are. in my town, there's 1 (with a few bays but each time i've been by, all are in use!). must be really irritating to get to the supercharge you need to get charged at only to find you have to wait for it to even be available before you can charge.i bought the LC partly because it's NOT an EV and especially because it's NOTHING like a Tesla inside. 
the last of a dying breed of naturally aspirated v8's with no engine start/stop that make an awesome sound while accelerating and yet are exquisite inside (and outside) 
anyway, i have an suv now as well (santa fe calligraphy) for work duties. a model Y would have done the job too, but for the reasons i've mentioned (quality and cereal box cheap and boring interior) no interest.yup, i went over that in first post, so yes, i agree, having an ICE car in addition to an EV *right now* is the way to go.
and i agree with the many comments here that in time, EVs are improving rapidly in capabilities and range of options, and current issues will be non-issues in 5-10 years.
the last of a dying breed of naturally aspirated v8's with no engine start/stop that make an awesome sound while accelerating and yet are exquisite inside (and outside) anyway, i have an suv now as well (santa fe calligraphy) for work duties. a model Y would have done the job too, but for the reasons i've mentioned (quality and cereal box cheap and boring interior) no interest.yup, i went over that in first post, so yes, i agree, having an ICE car in addition to an EV *right now* is the way to go.
and i agree with the many comments here that in time, EVs are improving rapidly in capabilities and range of options, and current issues will be non-issues in 5-10 years.
It's possible to do this with other networks but I don't know if they've done so.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 52
From: FL
Several things I haven't seen mentioned for the long term. Do you really think the electrical grid can supply enough power to all the new EV demands. I know there have been discussions about it here but I'm not convinced. Who knew the Texas grid was so mismanaged? How many other States are in the same position? If you have no power what do you do? How high will Utility rates go as demand increases with less fossil fuel available. Windmills aren't the answer.
Another issue that will probably come up is the loss of tax income as EV's take over. Gasoline taxes will drop and politicians will need to find creative ways to get your money. EV taxes will sky rocket. No more tax incentives unless the Feds want to print more money. What's a few trillion here or there anyway?
As of right now I'm not ready to drop my ice vehicle. An all electric car with a battery makes me cringe. My next vehicle will probably be a PHEV. That way I can have to best of both worlds until I see where this going. We can use the 40mi range for grocery getting and the ICE for longer uses.
Another issue that will probably come up is the loss of tax income as EV's take over. Gasoline taxes will drop and politicians will need to find creative ways to get your money. EV taxes will sky rocket. No more tax incentives unless the Feds want to print more money. What's a few trillion here or there anyway?
As of right now I'm not ready to drop my ice vehicle. An all electric car with a battery makes me cringe. My next vehicle will probably be a PHEV. That way I can have to best of both worlds until I see where this going. We can use the 40mi range for grocery getting and the ICE for longer uses.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,838
Likes: 4,107
From: Maryland
great post but not really true about 'most people' because a huge # of people don't have a garage or a place to charge at work. But for those who do have a garage, you're probably right that most could make an EV work for them, except as i mentioned in very cold weather.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles...age-or-carport
I've seen this point made before about "oh just rent something for trips". Well a) renting isn't all that cheap, and b) it's certainly not convenient for a lot of people (vs. say renting a car for when you travel by plane). Where i live it's probably at least 20mi. to a car rental place, so i'd have to drive with someone else to go get the rental car so we can drive both vehicles back to the house to load up the rental car and head out. Same again upon return in reverse. That would each several more hours of time not to mention the cost, and depending on when someone's leaving (early in the morning for example) or returning (late at night for example) it may require another day or two car rental. Plus the pita factor of it all.
Spoken like a nyc guy. and i agree they suck for most city residents. As for the suburbs, most 'burb to city commutes are what, 10-30 mi.? Hardly an issue for an EV.
and i agree they suck for most city residents. As for the suburbs, most 'burb to city commutes are what, 10-30 mi.? Hardly an issue for an EV.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,070
Likes: 107
From: Southeastern PA
Several things I haven't seen mentioned for the long term. Do you really think the electrical grid can supply enough power to all the new EV demands. I know there have been discussions about it here but I'm not convinced. Who knew the Texas grid was so mismanaged? How many other States are in the same position? If you have no power what do you do? How high will Utility rates go as demand increases with less fossil fuel available. Windmills aren't the answer.
EV ftw!!!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,042
Likes: 609
From: Lake Ontario
@bitkahuna I'll rationalize it by listing the pros and cons from the perspective of a current EV owner - so this will be slightly biased as I've learned to live with some of the points that a person who does not own an EV will consider "cons".
At the end of the day an EV (and specifically a Tesla with a 250 mile range) will work for anyone that can charge at home. Period. I know that a Tesla is still not for everyone for other reasons - the simple and minimalist interior of the volume sellers (Model 3/Y), lack of certain features that some people can't do without and which don't make sense on such a technologically advanced car - HUD for example (Elon has his reasons for this - the so-called "nirvana" of fully self driving cars/robotaxis which I don't see happening any time soon), or the hit and miss in quality/fit and finish that is much more important to some folks and rightly so.
It all boils down to what you are willing to put up with and what is more important to you.
I will deliberately focus the lists below from the perspective of a current Tesla owner simply because of the range and availability of superchargers that make long distance trips a piece of cake 90% of the time.
Pros
In summary, I bought my Tesla Model S for two reasons mainly:
I didn't buy it because it's an EV. I bought the Model S simply because it satisfied the above two main criteria. Most people don't buy a car just because of the performance and low cost to maintain and drive.
At the end of the day an EV (and specifically a Tesla with a 250 mile range) will work for anyone that can charge at home. Period. I know that a Tesla is still not for everyone for other reasons - the simple and minimalist interior of the volume sellers (Model 3/Y), lack of certain features that some people can't do without and which don't make sense on such a technologically advanced car - HUD for example (Elon has his reasons for this - the so-called "nirvana" of fully self driving cars/robotaxis which I don't see happening any time soon), or the hit and miss in quality/fit and finish that is much more important to some folks and rightly so.
It all boils down to what you are willing to put up with and what is more important to you.
I will deliberately focus the lists below from the perspective of a current Tesla owner simply because of the range and availability of superchargers that make long distance trips a piece of cake 90% of the time.
Pros
- Range Anxiety - No range anxiety in the 2 years I've owned my car. I have driven it on multiple trips - the longest was a 500 mile trip from Ontario to NYC. Multiple trips up north (north of the Greater Toronto Area) in Canada. For example for the trip to NYC, I stopped to charge twice and on both occasions my wife and I needed a bio break as well as a food/coffee/stretch our legs break. So the time it took to do that, we charged the car. Overall trip length would have been exactly the same in an ICE car as we only charged for as long as we took our break. If you're the type of person who enjoys eating while driving, then you will certainly have a shorter drive in an ICE car.
- Performance - Once you experience the instantaneous, unrelenting, buttery smooth thrust at any speed - you basically "think" of pressing the accelerator and the car moves forward - it's almost as if the car reads your mind (it's very hard to describe this to anyone and have that person really appreciate it till that person drives an EV) there is no going back to an ICE car. Your whole paradigm of what is a responsive car completely changes. The best part is that it is so effortless because there is no sound to relay the work/effort that an internal combustion engine conveys (this is both a pro and a con) and you just want to floor often.
- Maintenance - Very low maintenance - in the 2 years I've had the car, I've replaced the cabin air filter and have serviced the brakes (clean and lube only) just once so far. I have driven 22k miles - mainly due to the pandemic and limitations on travel.
- Charging costs: For a car the size of mine (think MB S class/BMW 7 series etc,) the cost to drive that much mileage (22K miles) for me was CAD$700
- Over the Air (OTA) updates: My car has gained several new features in the 2 years I've had it (and it will be 5 years old in June). I will not itemize the list here, but if you are really interested, I have every single change documented in an online spreadsheet. Most memorable/dramatic change (which is not really a pro for folks that don't have a specific version of the Model S that I have - a 2106 75D) was an increase of 22% in performance - my car went from 420 to 476 hp (torque increase was much more significant) , dropped the 0-60 time of 5.2 seconds to 4.2 seconds. The other more dramatic change to newer Tesla's has been a significant improvement to the driver assistance system. I deliberately don't call it the misleading name of "Autopilot" as that is something it is not. It is a very sophisticated driver assistance system. I won't go into details here as anyone can look this up online.
- The "Tech" features: The myriad and so many features that are electronically controlled gives you so much convenience in your palm on your smartphone. Too many to list here - some pertinent ones (scheduled charging, pre-heat/cool, gps coordinates of your cars location, ability to see how fast your spouse or your kid is driving the car in real time, ability to use the car in "camp mode", smart summon (not so smart always, but it's a definitely plus in certain scenarios), trip planning that automatically routes you to superchargers when needed - the car shows in real time how many chargers are available at a specific location.
- Range anxiety & lack of charging convenience: It doesn't matter how much range an EV has. For some people the lack of availability of fast chargers at every corner and being able to charge in 5 mins will always consider an EV to be not feasible.
- Not very luxurious in the traditional sense: Tesla's specifically have very simple, minimalistic interiors that you may not like. Personally I love the minimalist interiors and absolutely do not like very elaborate and fancy interiors - I just value the driving experience more than creature comforts like massaging seats, quilted leather etc.
In summary, I bought my Tesla Model S for two reasons mainly:
- The performance
- Low cost to maintain and charge
I didn't buy it because it's an EV. I bought the Model S simply because it satisfied the above two main criteria. Most people don't buy a car just because of the performance and low cost to maintain and drive.
Last edited by Hameed; Mar 8, 2021 at 12:58 PM.
Pole Position
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 150
From: fl
But at least with ICE you can carry extra gas, may not be the safest way to travel but if you have to evacuate, you have the peace of mind you have extra gas on tap if needed. If you live in an area where power could be out for extended periods of time, as in hurricanes, etc., having extra gas for your vehicle could come in handy. I myself will be looking at a plug in hybrid as one of the posters above mentioned, which at this point in time would be best of both worlds for me.
ClubLexus Stories
Celebrating Lexus & Toyota from Around the Globe
10 Lexus Bargains That are Cheaper Than a New Toyota RAV4
Joe Kucinski
8 Weirdest Things Lexus Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
10 Lexus Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
8 Tips for Improving Your Hybrid or Plug-in Hybrid's Efficiency!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Best Lexus Models No One Remembers
Joe Kucinski
TRD Off-Road Premium: Best 2026 4Runner, Except This One Thing
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Lexus & Toyotas to Drive Before You Die!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Lexus/Toyotas With The LEAST 5-Year Depreciation
Joe Kucinski
Lexus LC500 Convertible Auction: A Preview of Rising Values?
Brett Foote
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
https://www.techtimes.com/articles/2...-blackouts.htm
Honestly, most families will probably have an EV and ICE for the next 20 years. My main desire in getting an EV was the face melting speed at a cheap price with low ownership costs. I bet half the Tesla owners are like me...the other half are former Prius owners.
More people have garages than you think. In 2015 63% of all housing units in the US had a garage or carport.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles...age-or-carport
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles...age-or-carport
I'm not an expert, but to me the whole premise of recharging is just a big mistake from the get go. And then you have several different types of chargers, with Tesla pushing their own proprietary ones that only work with Teslas. What happens to the Tesla charging infrastructure should Tesla go belly up? A standardized, quick swap battery is a much better solution.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,838
Likes: 4,107
From: Maryland
How many people are actually using their garages though? In inner cities most people use their garages as storage, and keep their cars in driveways or even just on the street. I had a garage in my old house that I haven't used once, because pulling into it through a narrow long driveway is just too much hassle. In my new house I don't even have a garage, just a driveway, and I seldom use it. And even those with bigger driveways/garages in the suburbs, they often need several vehicles, so having several charging stations isn't very practical.
I'm not an expert, but to me the whole premise of recharging is just a big mistake from the get go. And then you have several different types of chargers, with Tesla pushing their own proprietary ones that only work with Teslas. What happens to the Tesla charging infrastructure should Tesla go belly up? A standardized, quick swap battery is a much better solution.
I was saying hypothetically. Who knows what happens a few decades from now.