Lexus Is Preparing a V8 F Car Renaissance
Doubt it will sell, the C63 is an enthusiast car, we're not easily fooled.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,602
Likes: 89
From: Singapore
14 years ago the IS F was marketed with 4.6 0-60
TODAY the same motor designation with small changes will have a 4.5 0-60
A LOT of the IS500 is a parts bin carry over... From many existing models.. GS350 14" F Sport Brakes, existing Torsen LSD, AVS, Engine / Trans just to name a few..
There is nothing innovative / bespoke on this MY22 car, it's mostly a carry over of sheet metal and parts from the current 2021 IS as we can all see..
Enkei Wheels ??
No Brembo Brakes, No special body package and unfortunately fell way too short on what should
of been the relaunch or rebirth of the "IS F"
But atlas we get another 2UR-GSE engine slap into a new "refreshed" IS chassis that came
out in 2014... which we already knew a V8 fit over a year ago..
Even with the "space" they are leaving for the so called standalone F brand, I don't see those flying down the pipeline anytime soon.
Just my .02 ¢
TODAY the same motor designation with small changes will have a 4.5 0-60
A LOT of the IS500 is a parts bin carry over... From many existing models.. GS350 14" F Sport Brakes, existing Torsen LSD, AVS, Engine / Trans just to name a few..
There is nothing innovative / bespoke on this MY22 car, it's mostly a carry over of sheet metal and parts from the current 2021 IS as we can all see..
Enkei Wheels ??
No Brembo Brakes, No special body package and unfortunately fell way too short on what should
of been the relaunch or rebirth of the "IS F"
But atlas we get another 2UR-GSE engine slap into a new "refreshed" IS chassis that came
out in 2014... which we already knew a V8 fit over a year ago..
Even with the "space" they are leaving for the so called standalone F brand, I don't see those flying down the pipeline anytime soon.
Just my .02 ¢
In fact, the fact that a mid range F-Sport Performance car has 470 hp makes me salivate at what a range topping ISF will be like.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,871
Likes: 4,114
From: Maryland
14 years ago the IS F was marketed with 4.6 0-60
TODAY the same motor designation with small changes will have a 4.5 0-60
A LOT of the IS500 is a parts bin carry over... From many existing models.. GS350 14" F Sport Brakes, existing Torsen LSD, AVS, Engine / Trans just to name a few..
There is nothing innovative / bespoke on this MY22 car, it's mostly a carry over of sheet metal and parts from the current 2021 IS as we can all see..
Enkei Wheels ??
No Brembo Brakes, No special body package and unfortunately fell way too short on what should
of been the relaunch or rebirth of the "IS F"
But atlas we get another 2UR-GSE engine slap into a new "refreshed" IS chassis that came
out in 2014... which we already knew a V8 fit over a year ago..
Even with the "space" they are leaving for the so called standalone F brand, I don't see those flying down the pipeline anytime soon.
Just my .02 ¢
TODAY the same motor designation with small changes will have a 4.5 0-60
A LOT of the IS500 is a parts bin carry over... From many existing models.. GS350 14" F Sport Brakes, existing Torsen LSD, AVS, Engine / Trans just to name a few..
There is nothing innovative / bespoke on this MY22 car, it's mostly a carry over of sheet metal and parts from the current 2021 IS as we can all see..
Enkei Wheels ??
No Brembo Brakes, No special body package and unfortunately fell way too short on what should
of been the relaunch or rebirth of the "IS F"
But atlas we get another 2UR-GSE engine slap into a new "refreshed" IS chassis that came
out in 2014... which we already knew a V8 fit over a year ago..
Even with the "space" they are leaving for the so called standalone F brand, I don't see those flying down the pipeline anytime soon.
Just my .02 ¢
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,269
Likes: 296
From: ------
Lets see how well this sells. They will sell more C63 AMGs with the 4 cyl then they will these
I totally agree, but that doesn't mean it can't be tweaked and improved on some level over the many years its been at this spec.
When do you trade your M3 in? (my guess is never).
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy they did this...its something...I would just like to see them put a little more effort into it.
I totally agree, but that doesn't mean it can't be tweaked and improved on some level over the many years its been at this spec.
When do you trade your M3 in? (my guess is never).
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy they did this...its something...I would just like to see them put a little more effort into it.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,871
Likes: 4,114
From: Maryland
I don't think so unless they price this 8 cylinder IS a bit too high. No AMG C class fan/buyer was asking for a 4 cylinder hybrid, it is just pointless and a huge disappointment and step back. Of course they can make a over boosted hybrid 4 cylinder quicker then the 8 cylinder, it does not mean it is a good idea or people are going to want it. This could be a move to get people into a E class, maybe the new inline 6 just doesn't fit in the C class too, who knows, I was never into C classes or even AMG C classes and this 4 cylinder only move certainly doesn't make me want them anymore.
The reason for it is Europe. People can buy and drive a 4cyl hybrid C63 in cities in Europe where they can't a V8 C63.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,269
Likes: 296
From: ------
A 4 cyl AMG C class may sell a little better in Europe though I don't think it will sell that well but in the States I just see it being rejected especially when they still want 60K or 70K+ for it.
Last edited by UDel; Feb 23, 2021 at 09:16 AM.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 5,482
Likes: 89
From: N/A
There's an entire social status leap between those who can afford a V8 S-Class and the emissions taxes that come with it than those who drive a C63.
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,871
Likes: 4,114
From: Maryland
Why can't they? They can't drive a C63 in some Euro cities but what about a 8 cylinder S class, is that banned too, they didn't go 4 cyl hybrid with the new S class or 7 series or all the other AMG cars.
A 4 cyl AMG C class may sell a little better in Europe though I don't think it will sell that well but in the States I just see it being rejected especially when they still want 60K or 70K+ for it.
A 4 cyl AMG C class may sell a little better in Europe though I don't think it will sell that well but in the States I just see it being rejected especially when they still want 60K or 70K+ for it.
And yeah, there are small diesel powertrains available on the S Class and 7 Series, etc in Europe for this reason. They have an S350d for instance, 280 hp 6 cyl..
Lexus Champion
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 13,280
Likes: 1,890
From: WA
My guess on IS500 pricing is $59,995. 
A base RC300 RWD is just over $3k more expensive than an IS300 RWD ($42k vs $39k).
An RC F starts at $66k, so take $3k off of that and we're at $63k, then take another $3k off for not being an "F" car (I'm thinking Brembos, seats, fenders, etc.) and we're right at $60k. I think a V8 IS at $60k would do quite well.
A base RC300 RWD is just over $3k more expensive than an IS300 RWD ($42k vs $39k).
An RC F starts at $66k, so take $3k off of that and we're at $63k, then take another $3k off for not being an "F" car (I'm thinking Brembos, seats, fenders, etc.) and we're right at $60k. I think a V8 IS at $60k would do quite well.
Driver
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 159
Likes: 7
From: California
I think we all would, but at least they're still finding good places to use their V8 engine. That does seem like a lot of power for a small RWD car like the IS though, especially with such limited changes to the actual car. I think we're agreed that this is just a parts bin special, not really a "renaissance" as some are saying, but hopefully it means we're going to see some more innovation in the Lexus sports car department. Hopefully.
Driver
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 159
Likes: 7
From: California
I hope you're right and Mercedes gets slapped for throwing such a garbage engine into their small enthusiast car, but I really think it will sell. If the M3/M4 can sell with an ugly face like that, who knows, the hybrid 4 cylinder C63 might sell too. It's honestly a breath of fresh air seeing the new 911 GT3. I was and still am deeply in love with the previous gen GT3 Touring. That's how you make an enthusiast car.
Its not that they're banned...yet....they're taxed. In Europe these access taxes are a huge issue for carbuyers.
And yeah, there are small diesel powertrains available on the S Class and 7 Series, etc in Europe for this reason. They have an S350d for instance, 280 hp 6 cyl..
And yeah, there are small diesel powertrains available on the S Class and 7 Series, etc in Europe for this reason. They have an S350d for instance, 280 hp 6 cyl..
https://www.thedrive.com/news/35269/...-weird-to-live
https://www.autoblog.com/2016/05/02/...sel-confirmed/
Last edited by Och; Feb 23, 2021 at 11:32 AM.
I hope you're right and Mercedes gets slapped for throwing such a garbage engine into their small enthusiast car, but I really think it will sell. If the M3/M4 can sell with an ugly face like that, who knows, the hybrid 4 cylinder C63 might sell too. It's honestly a breath of fresh air seeing the new 911 GT3. I was and still am deeply in love with the previous gen GT3 Touring. That's how you make an enthusiast car.
The IS500 is going to be in a very good spot if it competes against the more expensive C class with unappealing 4 banger.
Another point - many people are a lot more fond of the older NA V8 M3 vs the new TT 6 cylinder models. Also, the next M3 is AWD only from what I know, which pisses off a lot of purists. If the price is right, the IS500 is going to be a huge win.