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Polestar is super thirsty, maybe the least efficient EV? It's possible to get the EPA rated range on a Tesla I've seen it done but have to drive carefully which is nearly impossible in an EV. Power is addicting.
Car Wow just did a range test on a Tesla and Polestar. Model 3 Performance got 286 miles of range (EPA at 315). The Polestar got 197 miles (EPA at 233 miles).
yup, showing once again, there's a big problem with the claims... they're not remotely realistic, down 10-15% easy.
yup, showing once again, there's a big problem with the claims... they're not remotely realistic, down 10-15% easy.
It's exactly the same even with ICE vehicles. EPA ratings are derived from driving in a very controlled manner, going at 55 mph, not having a lead foot etc.
yup, showing once again, there's a big problem with the claims... they're not remotely realistic, down 10-15% easy.
Keep in mind that the EPA assumes you do 55% city and 45% highway so its not surprising the Tesla was rated at the 315 miles of range. The Car Wow range test was all highway so it of course is worse. Also, the UK highways are slower than the states so 286 miles in California is a pipe dream. You'd get run off the road if you went that slow on the highway
As I said before, assume you have about 200-250 miles of real range driving regularly.
It's exactly the same even with ICE vehicles. EPA ratings are derived from driving in a very controlled manner, going at 55 mph, not having a lead foot etc.
Agreed, and I don't find the 80% efficiency that bad considering they drove it normally, it was cool/cold enough that they used heaters, and they're not benefiting from regen much at highway speeds. On long trips my efficiency is closer to 90%, but I do live in a climate that favors EVs. EVs will keep improving and with a dual-stage transmission (like Porsche) other EVs will improve their high-speed efficiency.
Looking back at my 40K miles with our 2013 LS 460, I averaged 17 MPG, which is within the EPA specs of 16-24 MPG. However, a full 25% (or 31 fill-ups) were 13-15 MPG under my same driving style and commute. In 124 tank fulls of gas, only one averaged better than EPA at 24.21 MPG on a road trip. I know the LS can do 27-28 MPG on the highway but I couldn't sustain it and invariably encountered traffic. If you consider 24 MPG as the top EPA estimate (akin to the max EPA range estimate on an EV), then the LS was literally short 99% of the time for me.
I used to obsess about the range on our Tesla but have since adopted the recommendation of more experienced EV owners and set the display to percent, similar to the battery meter on your phone. On a trip, I will start planning for a charge once the battery gets below 20% (again, similar to my phone). Typically the car starts each morning at 90% and is more than enough to get me through the day (or a week if desired). It is just a different way of doing things and each person has to decide if it works for them or not. I prefer paperless statements and read articles, books, and news on my phone whereas my wife prefers to hold paper or books in her hand. Just different approaches to getting things done.
thanks guys. i suspect MOST ev owners don't really do a lot of driving anyway. i don't imagine salespeople who visit clients all over the place driving ev's, and as we know, delivery vehicles aren't there yet in most cases. i know amazon has that giant order with rivian i believe, but it's still all vaporware.
no doubt when i get an ev, it will work for me too because i don't drive a whole lot either, being lucky to be able to work from home, contact most clients remotely, don't take a lot of road trips, etc.
Another hidden truth is that zero Teslas get the rated EPA miles when brand new. What I mean is, brand new, if a Model S is rated at 370 miles of range the BMS (battery management system) will report something like 358 miles at 100%, with zero miles on the odometer. This is commonplace among all Teslas. So, right off the bat, the BMS will report 2.5-4.5% less range than marketed.
Our 285-mile rated Raven S never saw more than 278 miles of range at 100%. Throughout the first year I lost some more range and fretted over it, which is common. This second year has been very consistent and I haven't seen any additional degradation yet, but I know it will continue to fall (just at a much slower rate than year one) like all Li-ion devices. As it stands, my 100% charge lists 270 miles instead of the 285-rated miles. Considering that I can realistically travel 245 miles on a 100-to-4 percent charge, then my efficiency is 94% of current stated range.
I am not trying to defend the percent lost in range. Rather, I am hoping to clarify and raise awareness and put the percent lost into context. The percent lost looks worse because it is calculated against the max stated range, AS IT SHOULD BE since it is marketed as such but it's also inaccurate in a way. I don't know how it is for a new eTron or Mach-E and other EVs, but just be aware there's "normal" immediate range lost for all Teslas. It sucks but it is truth/reality.
Last edited by FatherTo1; Mar 19, 2021 at 01:52 PM.
I saw on Car and Driver's long term Model 3 that it has lost significant range over time but they believe it to be atypical, and I would tend to agree.
Our Tesla Model 3 Has Lost 7 Percent of Battery Capacity in 24,000 Miles
If our car's battery continues to erode at this rate, it will qualify for replacement under Tesla's warranty.
Battery packs in electric vehicles slowly lose capacity to store energy over time.
All EVs have lengthy warranties on the battery pack to assuage buyers' potential fear of expensive replacement costs.
Much like the little lithium-ion pack in your cellphone, the battery in an EV slowly loses its ability to store energy over time. In the case of an electric car, this degradation in its total energy capacity means that its maximum range shrinks over time. There are many factors that play into this. Some are choices by the various automakers (such as how much of the battery's total capacity to make available; narrower swings in the state of charge are friendlier to longevity) and some based on the owner's behavior. For example, our long-term Tesla Model 3 specifies that charging above 90 percent shouldn't be done for daily use, only for trips, although it doesn't explicitly say what the long-term ramifications might be for regularly going above that threshold.
We were of course curious to see how our car's pack is faring over time, and the geektastic TeslaFi software we've used to track our car's more than 24,000 miles and each of the 842 times we've plugged it in has an answer. (Seriously, if you have a Tesla, sign up for TeslaFi.)
TeslaFi's battery-tracking tool puts our pack at 93 percent of its original 75.0-kWh capacity, a loss of about 22 miles of rated range from the original 310-mile EPA combined figure. This is based on the range data from the nearly 500 times we've charged our car to 90 percent of its capacity or above (see graph below). In cases where we charged to less than 100 percent, which is the vast majority, TeslaFi does a linear extrapolation to arrive at the predicted range at 100 percent (e.g., if the battery is charged to 90 percent and the range figure is 270 miles, the extrapolated 100 percent range figure = 270 / 0.9 = 300). Compared to 158 other Model 3s at similar mileage that are also connected to TeslaFi, our car is faring worse than 123 of them and better than 35.
We're not too surprised that we're doing worse than average, as fast charging at Tesla's Superchargers is not great for maximizing the battery's life, and we've gotten fully a third of the energy our car has used that way. Supercharging also costs about twice as much per kilowatt-hour of energy than charging at home.
Our battery's degradation thus far equates to a drop of roughly 2.9 percent in pack capacity every 10,000 miles, which, if it continues at this rate, would put us at 65 percent capacity at 120,000 miles. That's under the 70-percent-capacity retention specified in Tesla's eight-year/120,000-mile battery warranty for the Model 3 Long Range. However, Tesla makes it clear that in the case of a warranty claim, the car won't necessarily get a new battery, but one that at least meets the minimum 70 percent threshold.
We'll continue to watch this battery degradation trend and let you know where our pack ends up at the end of our 40,000-mile test.
I saw on Car and Driver's long term Model 3 that it has lost significant range over time but they believe it to be atypical, and I would tend to agree.
The way they are testing isn't the most accurate either. To do a full test, they have to deplete battery then charge to 100% and do this cycle a couple times for the BMW to get calibrated accurately. TeslaFI still requires BMS data to extrapolate so its as inaccurate as the BMS. The BMS only guesses at whats available on the battery as some cells have higher voltage than others but its only reading an average. If you charge to 100% a couple times, it balances out the cells so you get a more accurate reading. Cell imbalancing could result in higher than average degradation.
It's videos like this that make me leery. This couple in cold weather is so desparate to get to a charging station they turn off the heating and every non-essential accessory to preserve what's left of their battery charge.
And then they have to recharge for ages in FREEZING weather.
meanwhile, i was a bit annoyed this week that i had to refill my ice car in 5 minutes this week.
It's videos like this that make me leery. This couple in cold weather is so desparate to get to a charging station they turn off the heating and every non-essential accessory to preserve what's left of their battery charge.
And then they have to recharge for ages in FREEZING weather.
meanwhile, i was a bit annoyed this week that i had to refill my ice car in 5 minutes this week.
I filled up my minivan this week too. It was $80. I haven't been to the gas station in 15 months.
I don't know why that couple bought the lowest range Tesla in cold Michigan. I understand it was for daily commuting but when you buy an EV, you have to understand the limitations of the car. If he wanted to road trip it, buy a long range version or a Model S/X. The charging network probably isn't all that built out in Michigan yet.
I filled up my minivan this week too. It was $80. I haven't been to the gas station in 15 months.
I don't know why that couple bought the lowest range Tesla in cold Michigan. I understand it was for daily commuting but when you buy an EV, you have to understand the limitations of the car. If he wanted to road trip it, buy a long range version or a Model S/X. The charging network probably isn't all that built out in Michigan yet.
Yea, that is just very poor planning. Navigating to the Supercharger also triggers battery pre-conditioning, consuming more energy, and did not help their cause. Better if they used navigation on their phone. Regardless, that is extremely risky to wait that long before finding a charger. Hopefully they're aware of plugshare.com to find alternative J1772 options if a Supercharger is not close enough. Reminds me of the ridiculousness when my brother still managed to run out of gas a few years ago. He wasn't out in some remote area, just running errands around town. SMH.
Yea, that is just very poor planning. Navigating to the Supercharger also triggers battery pre-conditioning, consuming more energy, and did not help their cause. Better if they used navigation on their phone. Regardless, that is extremely risky to wait that long before finding a charger. Hopefully they're aware of plugshare.com to find alternative J1772 options if a Supercharger is not close enough. Reminds me of the ridiculousness when my brother still managed to run out of gas a few years ago. He wasn't out in some remote area, just running errands around town. SMH.
He just doesn't know how to use the car. He probably had another station in between the two stops at the beginning. He should have just gone to the next charger as soon as the charging curve went down below 75kw. It's better to charge to 50-60% and then drive to the next charger and then charge to another 50-60%. It's faster to do it that way then wait to charge to 80%.
He just doesn't know how to use the car. He probably had another station in between the two stops at the beginning. He should have just gone to the next charger as soon as the charging curve went down below 75kw. It's better to charge to 50-60% and then drive to the next charger and then charge to another 50-60%. It's faster to do it that way then wait to charge to 80%.
Most people do not want to have to do this.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
It's videos like this that make me leery. This couple in cold weather is so desparate to get to a charging station they turn off the heating and every non-essential accessory to preserve what's left of their battery charge.
And then they have to recharge for ages in FREEZING weather.
meanwhile, i was a bit annoyed this week that i had to refill my ice car in 5 minutes this week. https://youtu.be/RRiTDcOgUII
The idea of going to supercharging or charging station and having to wait and not even fully charging is super lame. All the time you waste.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
meanwhile, i was a bit annoyed this week that i had to refill my ice car in 5 minutes this week. https://youtu.be/RRiTDcOgUII
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Mar 20, 2021 at 05:06 AM.
