ES 250 LUXURY AWD
ES 250 ULTRA LUXURY AWD
ES 350 LUXURY
ES 350 ULTRA LUXURY

hmmmm......

 

About as legitimate as the "Sport" in the ES F-Sport.

 

Exactly, the contention is people considering the ES a luxury sedan. If it's not then Lexus has some explaining to do.

 

I agree completely with this sentiment.

My trepidation with buying the current ES offering is with the unmentionable issues which have apparently been talked-to-death in CL and are now banned for life!

 

That's the problem...past versions of the ES (particularly the 4Gen) WERE different (and better) to drive than a Camry....until Lexus decided to cost-cut and cheapen them. Back then, they were more deserving of the Lexus nameplate.

Of course, to some extent, the same could be said of the superb 3Gen Camry of the early/mid-90s. It is not the same car today as it was back then, either.

 

You are correct. Lexus has a LOT of explaining to do.

 

"we have the recipe"

 

Why wouldn't someone consider it a luxury car? It absolutely is an entry level luxury car. Maybe people don't understand that there are different levels of luxury cars.

 

The ES is a luxury car - albeit an entry level luxury car, as opposed to a Rolls Royce which is a true luxury car at the top end of town.

In the old days when a 3ES was released along side a 2GS, the 2GS with the longer wheelbase always less longitudinal pitching in its ride.
However the 2GS did have lower profile tires with more thump and drone.

The 1992-96 2ES used incredibly expensive plastics and build quality.
However, by 1996-01, the 3ES cost cut and used incredibly cheap plastics.
These days, ES plastics are about right for their class.

I drove both the new Camry and the new ES last year, and they were both the smoothest and quietist of their type - ever.

The only criticizm would be a comparison of ES & RX to E/5 and GLE/X5 - where the ES and RX are FWD-based and too nose heavy, with cheap simple single lower link MacPherson strut suspension to both keep prices down, and to provide much needed space for the transversely mounted engines.

Just me only, but my greatest gripe with the current ES is the unnecessarily long front overhang, when the Camry has a noticeably shorter front overhang.

 

Because it's an outlier from others in its executive segment such as the E-Class and 5 Series, for the many reasons that have been mentioned in this thread and others.

 

As SW notes, if buyers think they are getting a LS level luxury car with the ES, they are uninformed buyers at best and need to do some reading/research and test driving... The ES is clearly entry level luxury and that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone posting here. EVERY SINGLE VERSION of this car has been built on the same platform as the Camry or the Avalon, and every single one of them has had some genuine improvements and added luxury features over those vehicles. There are HUNDREDS of threads here on CL and discussions/articles elsewhere about "should I get a Camry or an ES?" or "should I get an Avalon or an ES?". They drive similar and aren't priced all that differently; it's up to the buyer if the additional features are worth the premium.

I've made that exact decision twice, first with my 1992 Camry purchase (also heavily considered an ES300) and my latest 2019 Camry XLE Hybrid daily driver purchase. Neither time did the ES win out for my needs at that time, but it deserved consideration and I personally have no problem calling the ES a luxury car with entry level luxury expectations.

Is it a perfect car? No - and the latest model does seem to have an audio forward-balance issue as noted in that article that seems to be getting some recent progress with Lexus for a fix that has helped for some. Owners have been very vocal on that issue on CL and other places to get attention to that issue and fix (leading to some of those lower ratings). I liked the ES a lot in my test drive, but my knee awkwardly hit the center console when in driving position so it was dropped from consideration.

I don't think Lexus has any "explaining to do" -it's a great looking, great riding, great priced entry luxury car. if you don't like the vehicle, or it doesn't fit your personal expectations of luxury, or have some mental trauma that it's based on the same platform as a Toyota Avalon, don't buy it, lol. Simple as that.

 

I did sample the latest Avalon...thought it was significant improvement on the ES's road-manners, particularly with the 55-series tires. I did consider an Avalon, BTW....but ultimately decided that the crowds weren't all converting to crossovers for nothing....and, as I explained in earlier threads, decided a vehicle that size was just too big for my present needs.

 

Yeah, I drove the Avalon, Camry and ES extensively when I was shopping last year as well. Totally disagree. I think based on many of your comments you have very different sensitivities than many drivers here though, so you do you and get what fits best!

 

I'm amazed the Avalon is still around. I've driven a current generation Camry but don't remember much about it. Was a 4-cylinder seemed quiet enough I didn't like the transmission tuning and throttle response they felt off to me. But this is a common thing now had a similar experience in a new Jetta and Kia Soul. Most people don't seem to notice.

 

Not every manufacturer is in a hurry to dump all of their sedans.