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So your argument is that the G70 doesn't sell, except when it does?
Denial of facts doesn't make them not exist.
Alfa Romeo Guilia never outsold the G70, nevermind the IS or Germans. Your conjecture again does not apply.
G70 did sell nearly 10k on its first full year, but then the ageing IS sold 15k.
Point is, there are enough dealers for G70 to sell 10k, so no excuses please.
If G70 can sell 10k again in subsequent years, then it would have truly outsold the IS this year, but again, it is behind the dinosaur-like IS.
It is not the dealership, but the product that is of prime importance.
Marketing, dealerships and aftermarket service etc, is a poor excuse to cover the fundamental shortcomings of the product itself.
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Last edited by peteharvey; Sep 16, 2020 at 04:21 PM.
G70 did sell nearly 10k on its first full year, but then the ageing IS sold 15k.
Really says more about the IS that it could barely outsell a new car from a new brand with a fifth of the volume available sold under an almost non-existent dealership network. Same with the current LS compared to the G90.
I'm getting pretty tired of this going in circles here.
He does have a point regardless of your conjecture. Excuses won't help Genesis because if in the end they fail to move these cars then they will not last in this market. G70's are already one of cheapest luxury cars you can lease or buy and yet they're not moving much of them. For whatever reason many potential customers shopping in that group aren't interested.
I test drove one when I was in the market and aside from the non existent rear legroom, I couldn't see buying a new 3IS when a 3.3T can be had for same money as an IS200T F sport. A proper dealer network could certainly help but that's not the singular excuse why these cars aren't moving. This isn't the 90's, information moves at warp speed nowadays. Hopefully GV80 helps to change people's perception of the brand. If they fail to move that SUV then they'll have a serious problem.
Small dealership network = less vehicles available for sale = less vehicles sold each year. Unless most of your sales are online like Tesla, there's no exceptions to this rule. There are literally 4-5 times as many 3 Series on sale nationwide as the G70.
Conjecturing solely on sales volume would lead one to think that vehicles like the Telluride or Palisade are flops compared to others in their segment like the Highlander or Explorer, even though they're currently two of the fastest-selling vehicles in the country with absurd MSRP mark-ups. As far as I'm concerned, unless HMG says that the G70 isn't meeting sales expectations like the Stinger, there's no reason to write it off as failure.
I do agree that going forward, Genesis might not see much of an increase in sales volume even with the GV80 unless they can fix their dealership network issues.
Edit: Some interesting math
2020 G70s available for sale nationwide (Car Gurus): 1,093
2020 3'ers available for sale nationwide: 3,315 3 times as many 3'ers available compared to G70
2020 G70s sold so far: 6,225
2020 3'ers sold so far: 18,325 2.9 times 3'ers sold compared to G70
Hmm... what are the odds. I'd do one comparing the 2020 LS500 to the G90 too, but the results of that might be too inflammatory.
Last edited by Motorola; Sep 16, 2020 at 07:40 PM.
Lol, no need to get people riled up. Anyhow, i get what you're saying but the network alone isn't the issue. One big problem is that many who are in this market simply with not buy this car because of the badge. That's the truth, how many 3IS buyers even test drive a G70? Must be a tiny subset since you'd think in 2020 they'd opt for the G70. I left a review in the 3IS subfora last year to help spread awareness lol. Here in car-chat we do a lot of that.
Still, the 3IS buyers here simply isn't interested in owning this car and that is the bigger issue at hand. Even with the lousy dealership experience which i anticipated even though I have never been to a mainstream dealership in decades I knew service/ ambiance would be subfar. Yet that didn't deter me from seeing and experiencing what the G70 was about.
PS. you have more potential 3 series drivers test driving G70's than Lexus 3IS drivers, that's the irony. Could be due to the German dna as well lol, G70 is more DE than KR.
Lol, no need to get people riled up. Anyhow, i get what you're saying but the network alone isn't the issue. One big problem is that many who are in this market simply with not buy this car because of the badge. That's the truth, how many 3IS buyers even test drive a G70? Must be a tiny subset since you'd think in 2020 they'd opt for the G70. I left a review in the 3IS subfora last year to help spread awareness lol. Here in car-chat we do a lot of that.
Still, the 3IS buyers here simply isn't interested in owning this car and that is the bigger issue at hand. Even with the lousy dealership experience which i anticipated even though I have never been to a mainstream dealership in decades I knew service/ ambiance would be subfar. Yet that didn't deter me from seeing and experiencing what the G70 was about.
PS. you have more potential 3 series drivers test driving G70's than Lexus 3IS drivers, that's the irony. Could be due to the German dna as well lol, G70 is more DE than KR.
The demographic and personalities that buy German are willing to switch around. For example the biggest Tesla converts overall are from the German brands. Lexus has great loyalty due to the people wanting high reliability above all so they never switch. Lexus probably also cares least about performance due to their ownership makeup so I can understand them not pursuing stronger powertrains.
Genesis is not going very far. They are in their 6 MY now under the G naming but they have been selling RWD since 2010ish.....the sales aren’t there and neither are the dealers. People want BRANDS....as good as the G70 or G80 are....the brand is still not there....likely never will be.....
all that said, the cars are nice and the new GV80 is great...but the shiny badge is not as powerful as the MB, BMW, AUDI or Lexus badges.
Considering you already own the pinnacle of Lexus with the LFA, and with the F sub brand in doubt, it's not like you're missing out. Just get a X5 M or Cayenne Turbo S and haul away
Originally Posted by LH1
Yea, gengar basically owns the equivalent of a Carrera GT but he's still interested in what's happening with the IS F.
I don't like higher cars so don't do CUVs/SUVs, which is why it's annoying whenever we lose another performance sedan. It's also disappointing the USA doesn't get any of the good luxury hatches or smaller wagons - and worse yet that it is primarily politics that we have to blame for that.
I think the RS6 and E63S wagon are attractive replacements for prior IS F owners who want all-around luxury performance vehicles while avoiding CUVs/SUVs, I just don't feel inclined to pay $140k+ for bloated 4400lb+ midsizers to companies I don't have any affinity for, especially when the Cayman is my primary DD anyway.
all that said, the cars are nice and the new GV80 is great...but the shiny badge is not as powerful as the MB, BMW, AUDI or Lexus badges.
Totally...badge mongers will keep mongering...even then there are still folks that view Lexus, Infiniti and Acura the same way too, even after 30 years.
I might be willing to accept that the ISF might show up with a new V8 engine, but to bring back the 5.0 would be a very unlikely thing for an automaker to do. It would be interesting to know when any other time and automaker un-retired an engine for a model that did not have one except for the generation before.
