Auto Shifters: Older is Usually Better
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,246
Likes: 472
From: Long Island
just a non-electronic one
i know it's rare but one of the brand new CH-R's had a problem where its parking brake got stuck on and couldn't be released, it was funny watching them move it with its back wheels making 2 continuous skid marks the whole time lol
i know it's rare but one of the brand new CH-R's had a problem where its parking brake got stuck on and couldn't be released, it was funny watching them move it with its back wheels making 2 continuous skid marks the whole time lol
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,994
Likes: 248
From: California
One law that is still in effect (where or as applicable on the type of shifter itself) is the standardized P-R-N-D-L sequence (or P-R-N-D-M for manual-mode), whether it be stalk, column, console shifter, buttons, or a rotary softer.
That law dates back to the 1960s, and was part of Ralph Nader's crusade, back then, to get safer vehicles. Personally, though I did not necessarily support all of Nader's proposals, I did support that one. I can remember, back in the early 60s, new cars from GM, that had a P-N-D-L-R sequence instead....it led to inadvertent transmission damage or failure from drivers who were not used to it, or who shifted back and forth occasionally between vehicle-brands.
That law dates back to the 1960s, and was part of Ralph Nader's crusade, back then, to get safer vehicles. Personally, though I did not necessarily support all of Nader's proposals, I did support that one. I can remember, back in the early 60s, new cars from GM, that had a P-N-D-L-R sequence instead....it led to inadvertent transmission damage or failure from drivers who were not used to it, or who shifted back and forth occasionally between vehicle-brands.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,430
Likes: 249
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Without pulling up photos or doing further digging, I don't think that law is still sticking. Many makers have shuffled up the order of PRNDL. Or at least one rough example would be Audi, where you go this way for something, that way for another, or hit this button for another. Many others the same way.
The PRNDL sequence still basically applies, but has been loosened somewhat to take into account space-savers and L-shaped patterns on the shifters such as GM's electronic joystick (shown), and BEV vehicles, like Teslas, that have only one forward "gear" in the drive-range.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,430
Likes: 249
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Originally Posted by tex2670
Same with power windows. Modernization is overrated!!
No offense, but I basically agree with tex. While power windows are indeed a convenience, simple hand-cranks are far more reliable, don't have motors, wiring, or regulators to fail (I have had regulator-problems more than once, including my Outback), and won't let you down just as a big rainstorm is coming up or you are ready to go through a car-wash.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,445
Likes: 373
From: ON/NY
OK, I'll agree that we can do without hand-cranks for starting the engine, Model-T-style LOL.
No offense, but I basically agree with tex. While power windows are indeed a convenience, simple hand-cranks are far more reliable, don't have motors, wiring, or regulators to fail (I have had regulator-problems more than once, including my Outback), and won't let you down just as a big rainstorm is coming up or you are ready to go through a car-wash.
No offense, but I basically agree with tex. While power windows are indeed a convenience, simple hand-cranks are far more reliable, don't have motors, wiring, or regulators to fail (I have had regulator-problems more than once, including my Outback), and won't let you down just as a big rainstorm is coming up or you are ready to go through a car-wash.
When I drive the Avalon 2019, just a mess...two-three step process just to go from AM-FM and then station preset. all the beeps and stuff is just irritating.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,269
Likes: 296
From: ------
Yeah, I guess its not really full straight pull back, just with the leather boot it seems totally different then the open zig zag shifter on the GS430 and it doesn't move further back after D like the GS430 did.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,430
Likes: 249
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
You would get the same result on the console (and a lot less complexity) with a good old-fashioned column-shifter...the type that AJT123 was talking about.
In fact, IMO, the ideal combination is probably a column-shifter with paddles for quick downshifting/upshifting, but I have never seen that combination on a production vehicle (someone correct me if I'm wrong, and it has been done).
Last edited by mmarshall; Aug 22, 2020 at 07:12 AM.
Lead Lap
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,539
Likes: 351
From: In your head
I love in car tech, but I dont get the fascination with old school or new school column shifters nor the weird button arrangements/rotary dials.
To me a console mounted shifter feels intuitive. Ebrakes are fine, except in fun cars (would like a smart system that has a mechanical linkage and handle, and the ability to brake hold at lights/automatic application at park).
To me a console mounted shifter feels intuitive. Ebrakes are fine, except in fun cars (would like a smart system that has a mechanical linkage and handle, and the ability to brake hold at lights/automatic application at park).
You would get the same result on the console (and a lot less complexity) with a good old-fashioned column-shifter...the type that AJT123 was talking about.
In fact, IMO, the ideal combination is probably a column-shifter with paddles for quick downshifting/upshifting, but I have never seen that combination on a production vehicle (someone correct me if I'm wrong, and it has been done).
In fact, IMO, the ideal combination is probably a column-shifter with paddles for quick downshifting/upshifting, but I have never seen that combination on a production vehicle (someone correct me if I'm wrong, and it has been done).
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,430
Likes: 249
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,044
Likes: 98
From: Southeastern PA
Mercedes has column stalk shifters. Not really a fan, but MB buyers don't seem to mind. I'm sure in practice it's intuitive, and you get used to it.