Well, my response wasn't about the number of cylinders offered, but Lexus's own ability to make high-displacement turbo engines. No other mainstream manufacturer except Mercedes has a turbo V12 still in production, and there are rumors that Lexus is already working on a new twin turbo V8. Naturally aspirated V8s are excellent, but they are slowly dying off- ironically Lexus's slow engine rollouts means that they're one of the few brands that still offer quite a few NA V8s across their lineup. Even Genesis phased out the V8 in their new G80 in favor of a twin turbo V6, and the next generation G90 will likely do the same.

Smoothness and refinement aren't the same as reliability, but yes, it's still too soon to declare the engine as being bulletproof. But that wasn't my point- my point was that Lexus is clearly willing to offer the same high-displacement turbo engines as the rest of the competition, and it's not because of "reliability" that most of their lineup is still using naturally aspirated engines from a decade ago. The slow rollout factor for the new TTV6 is the same reason as to why over half their lineup still don't come with Android Auto or Apple Carplay, which also has nothing to do with reliability. I don't believe for a second that Lexus does not have the technology to upgrade their existing vehicles to the newest powertrains and infotainment. They just don't want to because they're arrogant enough to believe that their customers won't care and will remain brand loyal. That complacent attitude should never be excused.

And if Lexus truly does not have the ability to update their vehicles in such a manner, then that's just poor product planning in a manner that would make GM blush.

Have you looked at how high BMW has gotten in 3 year dependability? And their cars are MUCH more complex than a Lexus. It can absolutely be done reliably

57% of Lexus customers lease also.

The issue is reliability over the sake of everything else. It used to be that Lexus was pretty close to their competitors and offered much better reliability, its not the case anymore. They are so far behind their competitors in tech, performance, new product and available product, luxury, options, features...and the reliability gap is not as wide as it was.

I truly see no reason to choose a Lexus today, other than brand loyalty.

Speak for yourself, most luxury car buyers know they're not buying a Corolla or Camry, which is why they lease. Reliability is a moot point when the vehicle is under warranty and IIRC, most of the maintenance is included. Those many people who want reliability are buying RX and ES, like my own folks who don't care about performance. Majority of performance minded buyers go Euro.
I live in the US, so leasing is the reality of the US luxury car business, Lexus is no exception. But rich people in the US like new things more often than not, that is the reality of the upper crust market.

Spot on. Lexus does a great job selling RX and ES, but the other models, that is where buyers have turned away. Obviously, Tesla also hurt a lot as well.

I think Tesla hurt Lexus a lot less than the German brands. We will see what the impact of the Y is but for the most part, 2 completely different customer bases due to what each values. If you value reliability highly, Tesla would be the last place to look I really hope the new IS is something that will really surprise us and they give the new car the V6TT. I also hope someday that they use the new RWD platform to give us something like an X3/4 competitor that is sport based but lets see how they roll-out the IS first.

Its hard to say which one got hurt more, but the effect was that Model 3 killed everyone's sales...The IS is already old itself, so it didn't help its own cause because it wasn't really selling well to begin with. I know that a few of my friends who own one love not having to take their vehicles in for regular maintenance and of course, hanging out and drinking coffee while they charge. If Lexus could make their own Model 3 with the known reliability, it would be a game changer as much as the Model 3 has been.

So far, the cult of Elon has successfully worked to bring both European and Japanese sedan buyers to the fold.

Tesla's head start won't last, their service is horrible and the cars are very, very poorly built. Right now I think everyone who buys them are in the cult, as every new car has to go back immediately into service for what would be considered unforgivable issues from any other car manufacturer. I am talking paint with dust in the coat, deep scratches from the factory, lower rocker panel paint non existent or so thin it bubbles and rusts, misaligned panels, missing trims, loose seats , everything. Just look as TSMC's forum.

I would never buy anything from Elon, I have family that works there and he doesn't respect his workers or customers at all. I guess that's par for the course in Silicon Valley...

Pointing to “the new V6 LS” to argue that 3 years has proven, “in the 3 years the LS 500 has been out, I haven't heard of many engine issues.” Is problematic. Every car should and does preform its first three years without issue, including BMW. Only time will tell if the twin turbo V6 has the longevity of other application. With the exception of the LS 500, every other forced induction engine Lexus has produces minimal gains with respects to the competition. Additionally, bmw’s highest selling sedan is the 3 series. It’s large enough to be small and sporty and has just about everything you want in a luxury car, respectable power and handling. Lexus is capable of competing but throwing a twin turbo V6 in a yacht won’t entice the masses which is why their sales aren’t the best in the sedan line up. Lexus needs to invest in the IS model because it would out sell the ES due to the IS appealing to a larger demographic, like the 3 series does.

The vast majority of Tesla buyers are non-enthusiasts and are completely satisfied with their cars (highest satisfaction rating out of any car by Consumer Reports surveys). They even put them on the recommended list because the productions issues have gotten much better for the Model 3. The Model Y is experiencing production pains and are seeing quality issues but should resolve itself like the Model 3. Sure, not all cars are perfect but the Model 3 has improved drastically over the last year in terms of quality.

Tesla will never get to Lexus levels though because quality isn't one of their core competencies. Unfortunately, I also hear that Tesla is a pretty bad place to work for I think professional people work there because the equity they get is extremely valuable right now so they are making insane money to stay.

That's the thing. Enthusiasts love the performance, and the non-enthusiasts that bought them are enthralled with the tech behind it. I ridden my friend's plenty of times and he really loves it, but he is a slave to it for 72 months.
From what I hear, Tesla is chaotic to work at, at least at the factory. And also, employees can't even get discounts on their own vehicles, let alone most of them can't afford them either. OTOH, I'm sure Toyota pushes their associates to lease or buy their cars.

A few examples of Tesla "quality":


https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...ailure.195459/

All the satisfied owners are probably part of the " I love my Tesla, but" club. I used to want one and have test driven them twice, but after Elon's constant stunts and changes, Tesla's low quality for 100k cars, removing functionality from cars that was with the car at the initial purchase, and the fact that Tesla has no concern whatsoever for public health or their workers, I am good forever.

I know they don not care about the people who build their cars from 1st hand accounts from my family member that work there. Thats one reason why the quality sucks, you can't treat they people who build the cars like garabage and expect a good product. And turning the line into a revolving door by attrition just lowers quality even lower.

The best thing that could happen to Tesla and for its customers would be for Toyota to buy them and actually bring some sense to the manufacturing , engineering and service. They are good, even excellent at some things (integration of electronic systems) and absolutely dead last horrible at others ( building a car).

And regarding what F-Sport should be, most people would have been happy enough with the F-Sport trim if Lexus would have given all F-Sport cars real headers, a tune, intake and a better exhaust. 280-300ish WHP NA by this path is enough to satisfy most peoples wants without sacrificing any reliability , IMHO. I think it is attainable using aftermaket parts, so do not see why Lexus could not have done this.

Emissions would be the biggest hurdle but I agree that Lexus can certainly do more to squeeze additional power out of its 2GR setup without sacrificing reliability. Even increasing the rev limit to the 7,200 RPM range would help with acceleration (which is what Lotus does on the 2GR for its Evora lineup). Revising the final drive ratio something shorter (similarly to what the 2020 Lexus RC-F final drive was revised to when it went from 2.93 to 3.13) would also help.

For reference, a Full bolt-on + Tuned IS350 like mine is capable of doing 0-60 in the mid 4s and a 1/4 mile time in the high 12s which is more than enough speed for the average consumer that may be looking into a F-Sport trim with a V6 engine. I would guess that an emission friendly Lexus-tuned version would likely pass the 1/4 mile in 13 seconds flat.

Wow...thats an impressive car. The 2IS was faster than the 3IS though...probably weight and transmission tuning. What was the fuel economy hit with your setup? I barely managed 18 mpg with my IS350.

Yeah, I've always suspected the gearing or transmission tuning of the 3IS350 to be the primary culprit for its noticeably slower acceleration compared to the previous generation (at least up until 110mph).

I'm still at 17-18 MPG with city driving.