How do you know what Lexus future plans are? You’ve obviously given up on them. You either get what Lexus did with the F cars or you don’t. It was about the driving experience, not winning street races. Some people like a naturally aspirated engine. There are many articles on it. Why is the Ferrari 458 speciale preferred or the 911 GT3? They aren’t the variant of the car that makes the most hp. The 488 GTB and 911 turbo make more power. Why aren’t they preferred? Porsche switched the 718 GTS and GT4 back to a natural aspirated engine at the expense of weight and speed. Why if power is all that matters? I know why, I owned a 718 GTS 4 cylinder turbo.

 

This is NOT about NA engine or being faster etc.
It’s about lack of vision, product planning, R&D consistency etc.

I was at a great Lexus invitation event almost 2yrs ago now - Scott Pruett was there.
The LCF with the TT V8 was ready to go as per what was said and the plan was for it to come out late 2019 or early 2020. This was put on hold now indefinitely.
GS has been cut.
ISF was discontinued long ago.

Its not even the direction of F products - there are no F products to speak of.

RCF and M4 were introduced at the same time 6-7yrs ago now.
New M4 is coming in September, where is the new RCF - most likely will be discontinued...

You can’t just wake up 1 day and say oh yeah let’s introduce a new car next year - it takes YEARS to properly develop and test any new model. The German brands - whether you like them or not - make that commitment and invest the R&D $$$. If you pause the program, it takes more time to restart it. Toyota Japan runs the show and they don’t want to make this commitment.

 

I don't think being serious about performance and having NA engines are related at all. If Lexus was really serious about performance, wouldn't they have an "F" crossover by now, like all the Germans? Or at the very least, wouldn't they have a legitimately sporty crossover? None of the Lexus SUVs are sporty in the slightest. Maybe the NX and UX are somewhat agile - but I've driven the NX, and it just doesn't like to be driven hard. RNM GS3 is just stating what we all can easily observe, no need to take it personally. I think it would benefit you to think of things in terms of how YOU perceive them, and don't let others' opinions get to you. I would probably be the biggest fan boy of Lexus ever if I had both an LC 500 and an "F" series car in my garage, too. And I was a big fan boy of Lexus when I had my IS. But, now that I have moved on to to a different brand, I've started to realize that Lexus isn't the end-all-be-all. There are some great products they make, sure, but they also make some strange decisions - such as the topic of this thread, which is that F Sport isn't really seen as a legitimate performance option. Hey, maybe Lexus intended it that way. I mean look at S-Line from Audi or AMG-Line from Mercedes. Even those don't really offer much of a change in performance - it's mostly style. However, what those brands DO have is legitimate performance offerings, where owners can at least say they are borrowing a little DNA from those top-tier models. Lexus only has a couple of those right now.

Did I love my IS F Sport? Oh yeah. Do I think it's hypocritical of people to call out F Sport as being "rice" when things like S-Line and A-Spec are essentially the same thing? Yes. It is what it is.

 

I was only stating why I prefer Lexus Performance cars and why I think they are FUN! Why is one car better only because it has more power when another car will come along that has even more. If you buy a car thinking it has the most power, shortly you will be disappointed when another comes out with more. Why not focus on the total driving experience? Immediately I am attacked, by the same usual suspects who haven't owned the Lexus 5.0 V8. This is a Lexus forum is it not? Is it obscene to like a GSF, RC F, or LC 500. Or to want to see the revamped IS. Or to prefer the steering feel of a Lexus vs. several BMW's?

 

If you are going to purchase a car that costs $90k up, not lease. Is power going to be your only consideration? Will you give up Lexus service, resale value, comfort, and reliability, and a naturally aspirated engine for a few tenths of a second? The trade in value of my M550i was terrible. Porsche was different. Porsche is different, I'd buy another.

 

You should strongly consider the “ignore” feature.

Been trying to figure why some are on here. Enjoy your GS F

 

Thanks Jill! Yep, may have to do that. Some seem to want to discourage anyone liking a Lexus Performance car to support their own decisions of switching. I did switch, and came back to Lexus. I passed over the GS F many times, thinking it was outdated. My mistake. It's the best overall car I have owned! That engine sound puts a grin on my face everytime!

 

You are missing the point.

ISF, RCF, GSF and LC500 were solid cars - nobody ever said they weren’t good.
Unfortunately that is not enough. You need to build a Performance brand and show consistency. Lexus has not done that and therefore lost many loyal clients overtime.

People that buy M, Amg, Porsche etc - do it not only for that particular car they picked but also for the Brand and everything that having that badge represents.

 

Your talking like I don't know about German Cars. My first car was a 1989 325i. I was a big BMW fan and still like them. I owned a 2018 BMW M550i. I've owned two Porsches since 2017 including a 718 GTS, an amazing performance car. Have you owned anything above a M4? Have you paid cash for anything costing more than an M4? What point am I missing? I said the IS needs an update with more power to be competitive. Lexus has had a competitor for the M4, M5, and M8. They are missing the SUV sport Market. But they do offer true body on frame off road Suv's. Mercedes has the G wagon, the only real off road German SUV. The IS needs a refresh which it is getting. Lexus is trying to build a racing heritage. I watch the RCF GT3 race. Do you? Do you care? I was disappointed Lexus had to pull out of Le Mans. My point was the "F" cars are very fun because of the naturally aspirated engine. Not only fun, very reliable. A gem of an engine. Just because a car has more power doesn't make it a better car. Look at Porsche. Somebody else will always have more power. The sound of the Lexus 5.0 V8 is intoxicating!! I don't worry about the badge LOL. Posers worry about their badge.

 

^
First I don’t have an M4 lol.

My last post on this again for you.
Lexus is NOT interested in Performance Models at all. They take years to develop and mostly sell in small #s with little to no profitability. The F brand as of 2021 will only have one model - the RCF.

There is no current competition to M3, M5 or M8. (RCF is competitor to M4, LC500 is competitor for M850i)
Lexus also has no competition for performance SUVs which are selling like crazy - X3M, X5M, X6M etc.

Since you are long time BMW owner - then you must know of BMW CCA and BMW Performance Center in SC and Thermal in CA. Porsche has similar venues as well. These brands have infrastructure they built around these products over long time. They have a vested interest in these performance cars.

 

You say they aren't interested, yet I own two of them!!!! Did I imagine what sits in my Garage? Are they not there? Did you buy them and were disappointed? Sorry you have a entry level M car an M3 it appears...my bad. Lexus has a Performance Driving School. Did you attend? Did they not teach you enough? Have you attended the BMW Performance Center? Do you race on a track?

 

It helps to get your point across without the unnecessary and utterly irrelevant flexing.

 

Uhhh, that's a class of car. Car and Driver writes articles and list the best ones. You should write them and tell them it's irrelevant. Did I say it's a bad car? I could say it lacks the racing heritage and performance of a Porsche. It is relevant because someone who leases an entry level car does not make the same decisions as someone who buys a higher end car.

 

No problem (just do it, 25 strong for me now and I know they chase me around ). GS F doesn’t really turn my fire, but that’s OK. . The RC-F with the rediculous rear wing is sensational. Only to think that Toyota from where they were in 1989 with Lexus to what they are trying to produce now for “fun” is just awesome for Toyota fans. Carbon fibre hood, roof and trunk along with a torson or limited slip is interesting. LC500, sensational as well.

 

Lexus had seen what drives sales at Porsche and would like to build that racing heritage. They were just getting started, but apparently it's dead and nobody informed me or them if you listen on this forum. Apparently Toyota's great history at Nascar doesn't count either. I do like the RC F track edition! There is still a white one near me for sale I'd like to go see. Dang this pandemic. I love the carbon fiber wing and hood, but they probably would need full paint protection film to keep them looking good! I had my LC whole front end covered, and it was a tough job.