How come Lexus never had a V12 engine?
Thread Starter
Driver
Joined: Feb 2016
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From: Vienna, Austria (j/k, Rio, Brazil)
How come Lexus never had a V12 engine?
Toyota had the Century, which was, until a couple of years ago, powered by a V12 engine and yet Lexus, the luxury division from Toyota never had a V12. WTF?!
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
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From: CA
How many V12s were actually sold here in the states? Lexus has never really been a performance brand so it wasn't really needed. Lexus is all about sensible luxury with supreme reliability and they've never strayed from that ethos.
V12's are too expensive & too big for most cars. The only thing it improves is smoother running due to the required smaller piston to fit in the provided space. Non-super luxury vehicles are concerned with fuel economy & cost to own. Smaller cylinders reduces low RPM torque.
Volkswagon made a W12 engine for a few years that minimized the space issue for the Phaeton. You can buy a Phaeton now for less than 10% of the new cost due to all the electrical problems they have now.
Volkswagon made a W12 engine for a few years that minimized the space issue for the Phaeton. You can buy a Phaeton now for less than 10% of the new cost due to all the electrical problems they have now.
Last edited by Byprodrive; May 12, 2020 at 11:26 AM.
Thread Starter
Driver
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 108
Likes: 4
From: Vienna, Austria (j/k, Rio, Brazil)
V12's are too expensive & too big for most cars. The only thing it improves is smoother running due to the required smaller piston to fit in the provided space. Non-super luxury vehicles are concerned with fuel economy & cost to own. Smaller cylinders reduces low RPM torque.
Volkswagon made a W12 engine for a few years that minimized the space issue for the Phaeton. You can buy a Phaeton now for less than 10% of the new cost due to all the electrical problems they have now.
Volkswagon made a W12 engine for a few years that minimized the space issue for the Phaeton. You can buy a Phaeton now for less than 10% of the new cost due to all the electrical problems they have now.
Toyota treats Lexus just like GM treats Cadillac. Like the red head stepchild, that is.
Take the RAV4 Prime for example. Why the freaking RAV4 gets a 306 hp hybrid version while the NX 300h has to make do with that gutless powertrain? Why Toyota gets the good stuff first and Lexus gets it later? That's just plain wrong! Lexus has to showcase the absolute best that Toyota can do, so they have to get the good stuff first and then Toyota. English is not my native language, but I think you get what I'm trying to say here. I mean look at Volkswagen and Audi. You don't see the Volkswagen getting a super powerful engine before Audi gets it.
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Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
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From: CA
Thats the issue though...they are bringing a knife to a gunfight. Of course their domestic market power trains are pretty pathetic too so it is what it is.
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: ON/NY
Blah-blah-blah... Sour grapes, sour grapes, sour grapes... You two are only saying that because Lexus never had a V12 engine. Those who disdain, want to buy.
The point is that Toyota had the V12 engine and Lexus, the luxury brand, never had a V12 engine. What the effing F?!
.
The point is that Toyota had the V12 engine and Lexus, the luxury brand, never had a V12 engine. What the effing F?!
.
And it is impossible to bring a V8 to a V12 comparo....just doesn't work like that. A shame on Lexus...even a G-wagon had a V12 at some point....Thought some have said that engine was low on torque for a V10
At least Cadillac had a V12 in their history
Last edited by Toys4RJill; May 12, 2020 at 12:34 PM.
Keep in mind how compact the LFA V10 was. It weighed less than the 3.5L 2GR-FE V6 from Lexus.
Different strokes for different folks
LFA V10 4.8L 552hp @ 8,700 rpm and 354lb-ft @ 6,800 rpm
R8 V10 5.2L 562hp @ 8,000 rpm and 413lb-ft @ 6,500 rpm
Viper V10 8.4L 640hp @ 6,150 rpm and 600-lb-ft @ 4,950 rpm
You missed a golden opportunity. Your sentence should have read:
"At least Cadillac had a V16 in their history"
Different strokes for different folks
LFA V10 4.8L 552hp @ 8,700 rpm and 354lb-ft @ 6,800 rpm
R8 V10 5.2L 562hp @ 8,000 rpm and 413lb-ft @ 6,500 rpm
Viper V10 8.4L 640hp @ 6,150 rpm and 600-lb-ft @ 4,950 rpm
You missed a golden opportunity. Your sentence should have read:
"At least Cadillac had a V16 in their history"
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,325
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From: Long Island
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,325
Likes: 515
From: Long Island
when i saw this thread title i'm thinking well that's a coincidence i just saw doug review the V12 century
well i can tell you one of the original lexus missions was to create a world class luxury experience 'without the excesses of fuel consumption and weight often found in traditional luxury sedans' so they probably felt a V12 would be too heavy and thirsty
the V8 as it is just fits nicely snug in the LS engine bay idk how much room there'd be for a V12... i wish they'd just sell us a LHD century but that would mess up the whole 'lexus is actually the best we can do' thing they were going for
and they actually did make some LHD centuries for occasions when dignitaries and other important executives were overseas in a country that drove on the right
well i can tell you one of the original lexus missions was to create a world class luxury experience 'without the excesses of fuel consumption and weight often found in traditional luxury sedans' so they probably felt a V12 would be too heavy and thirsty
the V8 as it is just fits nicely snug in the LS engine bay idk how much room there'd be for a V12... i wish they'd just sell us a LHD century but that would mess up the whole 'lexus is actually the best we can do' thing they were going for
and they actually did make some LHD centuries for occasions when dignitaries and other important executives were overseas in a country that drove on the right
Lexus Champion
Joined: May 2016
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From: New York
"V12's are ... too big for most cars"
Width of a V12 engine: less than a V8 engine with the same displacement, due to 60° cylinder bank angle (vs. 90°).
Height of a V12 engine: less than a V8, due to shorter stroke and rod length.
Length of a V12 engine: roughly 1" longer than an L6 (the width of 1 connecting rod) with the same bore pitch.
Based on Dr. Lanchester's formula, a V12 engine will produce approximately 22% more power than a V8 with the same bore size and displacement, at higher RPM.
For a 5.0 liter engine:
V8: 4.000" × 3.035, about 412 hp
V12: 4.000" × 2.023", about 504 hp, but with a very long engine
If the same bore/stroke proportions as the V8 (1.318:1) are kept, the V12 advantage is reduced:
V12: 3.494" × 2.652", about 462 hp, but the engine is significantly shorter
Width of a V12 engine: less than a V8 engine with the same displacement, due to 60° cylinder bank angle (vs. 90°).
Height of a V12 engine: less than a V8, due to shorter stroke and rod length.
Length of a V12 engine: roughly 1" longer than an L6 (the width of 1 connecting rod) with the same bore pitch.
Based on Dr. Lanchester's formula, a V12 engine will produce approximately 22% more power than a V8 with the same bore size and displacement, at higher RPM.
For a 5.0 liter engine:
V8: 4.000" × 3.035, about 412 hp
V12: 4.000" × 2.023", about 504 hp, but with a very long engine
If the same bore/stroke proportions as the V8 (1.318:1) are kept, the V12 advantage is reduced:
V12: 3.494" × 2.652", about 462 hp, but the engine is significantly shorter
Last edited by kitabel; May 12, 2020 at 03:02 PM.