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Why Manual Transmissions are Dying.

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Old Apr 18, 2020 | 07:11 PM
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Default Why Manual Transmissions are Dying.



Although this video probably doesn't tell a lot of us what we don't already know (or suspect), I thought it was generally well-done for something that had to condense the long history of automotive transmissions into something just 13 minutes in length.

Although my knees are sometimes a little weak from arthritis, most of the time, I could, if I had to, still get into a traditional three-pedal car and drive simply by second-nature......I drove thousands of miles in manual-transmission cars when I was young, although the one I had in my 1980 Chevy Citation was simply awful (I covered that in another recent thread). Some things, even as you get older, just remain with you in your mind and ability, and you don't forget them....using a clutch and manual-linkage is one of them, although I still like to test-drive a vehicle with a stick every once in awhile just to make sure that I don't get rusty....a Mazda Miata or Fiat Spyder is arguably the most delightful stick still in production. I did have one limitation, however (and still do)....I never really got the knack of double-clutching or heel-and-toe downshifting to save wear on the synchronizers. However, the Nissan 370Z (which I did a full-review on several years ago) has a mechanism I liked.....the computer, when you downshift, automatically revs and matches the engine RPM to the transmission-output speed, which accomplishes the same thing as heel-and-toeing without the need for fancy footwork. That, of course, also saves the synchros from excess wear.

As far as the video is concerned, I take a more or less middle-position between the die-hard manual-transmission enthusiasts who bemoan the loss of traditional stick-shifts and those who look upon a vehicle as simply a motorized appliance where you start the engine, put the automatic transmission in gear, and go. I understand the reason for the demise of the stick-shifts (and, to some extent, it's inevitable, especially because of today's traffic jams)....but it's nice to know that, if I had to (or want to), I could still get into a vehicle and exercise that left-knee a little.


Last edited by mmarshall; Apr 18, 2020 at 07:19 PM.
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Old Apr 18, 2020 | 07:37 PM
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Back in the 80's and 90's, the manual was good for those on a budget. Cheaper sticker price and better fuel economy. Then automatic's economy numbers started matching or besting a manual's, so that advantage was lost. Also, for those who just wanted to shift on their own for the most engine control, got the option with automatics, starting in the mid-90's with transmissions like the Tiptronic. No clutch, but could still shift when you wanted to- a good compromise that also freed up effort in stop and go traffic. All these things combined led to the demise of the manual.

My first "manual" was a Tiptronic 1999 VW Passat. That transmission was all new for VW in 1998, but had been in use with Audi a few years prior. It wasn't an instant shift when done manually, but you could hold gears and rmp's effectively. That light car really hugged canyon roads btw. Then on to a 2003 Audi A4 with a similar shifter, but now using a CVT. The 1.8T and CVT were actually a very peppy combination. Shifts were quite instant when in manual mode and swiftly moving away from a red light was engaging with the turbo kicking in. Now to my 2008 IS250. Extremely smooth auto shifting when in automatic mode, but quite the delay when done manually. Disappointingly, all the new Lexus loaners I've had recently are only a tick quicker with the manual shifting, so Toyota has some work to do. I think the Audi's programming was best, and I am sure most new cars today are even better than all the above I've listed.

Mike, thanks for your posts. They've been entertaining while stuck bored at home during the crisis.
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Old Apr 18, 2020 | 08:21 PM
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while i wouldn't want to have to rely on one i'd love to have an extra manual car to throw around every so often, man and machine in perfect harmony and all that lol... the BRZ especially is awesome when fitted with the manual
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Old Apr 18, 2020 | 08:37 PM
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I own two manual transmission cars love driving them. Major upside is a manual rarely goes bad with proper maintenance they run forever. Exception of course is very high HP cars.
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Old Apr 18, 2020 | 09:32 PM
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^
I'm not an expert on the topic, but everyone I've known who's owned a manual has had to replace the clutch at some point. One Ford Focus, one Toyota 4Runner, and two different Tacomas.

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Old Apr 18, 2020 | 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Fizzboy7
^
I'm not an expert on the topic, but everyone I've known who's owned a manual has had to replace the clutch at some point. One Ford Focus, one Toyota 4Runner, and two different Tacomas.
^^^ True, a mechanical clutch is arguably the weakest point in the drivetrain. The clutch-disc, lining, and pressure-plate has to (repeatedly) absorb all the stresses from the engine torque/flywheel and the resistance of the heavy vehicle to get it moving from rest. That's why, depending on your first-gear ratio and final-drive ratio, the clutch sometimes has to be slipped with higher engine RPM and slower engagement, which means more wear on the linings and release-spring/throwout-bearing.

Mike, thanks for your posts. They've been entertaining while stuck bored at home during the crisis.
Glad you enjoyed them. If you want more, I've also got some other vehicles from the past that I plan to do some write-ups on.
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Old Apr 18, 2020 | 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Fizzboy7
^
I'm not an expert on the topic, but everyone I've known who's owned a manual has had to replace the clutch at some point. One Ford Focus, one Toyota 4Runner, and two different Tacomas.
yea but a clutch is a wear item like brake pads... when it's something's job to create friction there's only so much material available before it's used up

it's not like if you had to keep replacing a torque converter
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Old Apr 19, 2020 | 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Stroock639
yea but a clutch is a wear item like brake pads... when it's something's job to create friction there's only so much material available before it's used up

it's not like if you had to keep replacing a torque converter
Valid point.

I've got 82,000 miles on my WRX and the service manager and I were recently commenting about how the clutch feels brand new. Surprising given that my commute suffers from the stop and go of the Baltimore Beltway. I've seen other clutches go sooner, though after being abused.

I think that the demise of manuals was increased by those who could drive them giving them up as their spouse could not. I know that in my household it is a problem. And I can recall my sister giving up hers as her husband simply never learned. At this point for me however, I've been driving a stick for 17 years and would miss it too much if I had to give it up.
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Old Apr 19, 2020 | 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Stroock639
yea but a clutch is a wear item like brake pads... when it's something's job to create friction there's only so much material available before it's used up

it's not like if you had to keep replacing a torque converter

Originally Posted by SLegacy99
Valid point.

I've got 82,000 miles on my WRX and the service manager and I were recently commenting about how the clutch feels brand new. Surprising given that my commute suffers from the stop and go of the Baltimore Beltway. I've seen other clutches go sooner, though after being abused.
Also agree it's a valid point. You only have so much clutch lining....how long it lasts depends on driving conditions and the skill of the driver.

One way to wear it out quickly for sure is to use the spinning clutch, with light-spring-pressure, to hold the vehicle back on a hill while it is stopped, at idle. There are some people who actually do that out of ignorance....and the Owners' Manual usually warns against that.

As to the clutch feel itself, I don't know if some of you remember back to the days before self-adjusting clutches. It was like the days before self-adjusting drum brakes. When the clutch was new, it engaged with a low-pedal, just off the floor. As the lining wore with miles, the pedal would engage higher and higher off the floor. Self-adjusters (and the hydraulic clutch-action on newer clutches), like synchronizers, has made modern manual transmissions easier and more consistent to shift.
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Old Apr 19, 2020 | 08:23 AM
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You mean why are they dead? They were "dying" a long time ago lol
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Old Apr 19, 2020 | 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
You mean why are they dead? They were "dying" a long time ago lol
No, I think dying might be a better term. Though pretty much dead in conventional sedans, coupes (some BMW Ms excepted), crossover SUVs, and pickup trucks, they still live on in some sports cars, pony cars, high-performance cars, and the Jeep Wrangler. We will probably see that until the whole industry is electrified, and transmissions as we know them (both manual and automatic) become relics of the past.
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Old Apr 19, 2020 | 08:29 AM
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Extremely few cars. Even high performance cars you can't get manuals anymore.
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Old Apr 19, 2020 | 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
You mean why are they dead? They were "dying" a long time ago lol
they're essentially dead but luckily not actually dead lol
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Old Apr 19, 2020 | 10:25 AM
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A big reason is improved automatic transmissions for MPG with more gears to pass EPA standards. I would think autos are just as fuel efficent as manual trans in many vehicles now.
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Old Apr 19, 2020 | 11:31 AM
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Auto transmission is now more efficient than manual since the computer decides the best shift patterns, among other factors. On clutch replacement yes that is a wear item but also an expensive job if you don't do it yourself.
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