Toys4RJill

I think fuel economy will rule the day at the particular price point where the Camry V6 starts at, especially for the Hyundai buyer. But with Camry V6, it also represents an alternative to stepping up to an Avalon or even to a Lexus ES350.

SW17LS

The proof is in the sales. They sell far more 4 cyl Camrys than they do 6 cyl Camrys.

mmarshall

Yes, from an auto manufacturer's point of view (and CAFE regulations) fuel economy is paramount, but not necessarily from an owner's point of view. Not everyone is a cheapskate (nor desires to be one) when it comes to paying for fuel. Of course, most people don't want to spend any more than they have to for fuel, but the point is that, for a lot of people, it's simply not that big a deal....they drive where they want to (or need to), and pay the bill. And, in general, the longer the trip, the smoother and more refined you will generally want the engine to be.

Toys4RJill

Fuel economy is going to be paramount for 90% of Sonata and Camry buyers.

mmarshall

Respectfully, I disagree...nowhere near that many. First, these Mickey-Mouse engines (even with turbos) are being installed to (mostly) satisfy the Government regulators. Second, those who want true gas-misers can usually opt for the Hybrid versions. Third, unleaded regular gas, in most places in the U.S., (California and Chicago may be exceptions) has not been above $3.00 a gallon (and usually well below) for some time now, and, barring some major event in the Middle East, is not likely to skyrocket in price anytime soon. Even with instability in the Middle East, we simply don't import the large percentage of oil, any more, that we used to from those OPEC countries over there.....partly due to more drilling/exploration here in North America and offshore.

SW17LS

its not about being a "cheapskate" its about paying for things that are important to you, and not paying for things that aren't.

The vast majority of buyers (especially in this segment) don't know what kind of engine they have, or care. If it feels smooth and has enough power, they're good. For the most part, the "feels good, has enough power" applies to everything in the segment...so what buyers are left with is fuel economy to compare. Buyers absolutely DO care about fuel economy. Studies overwhelmingly show that.

With the Camry, they have an option for a less efficient but more powerful and more refined engine in the same car. So, if as you say plenty of buyers would pay extra for a V6 engine...surely you would see that in Camry sales. Issue is...you don't. Less than 10% of Camrys sold are V6 models. The V6 is right there but consumers aren't buying it, and thats compared to a relatively coarse naturally aspirated 4 cyl, not even compared to the more refined turbo 4 cyl engines in the competition that have better power and feel.

You can see where consumers are going by looking at what carmakers are doing. There just isn't demand for V6 power in this segment anymore, which is why there are no options for it.

To draw an analogy, I am NOT a cheapskate. I pay a lot for many things in my life that I enjoy. I go to luxury restaurants, I stay in luxury hotels, I drive luxury cars, I value quality and will pay for quality. But, there are many things I dont spend a bunch of money on...not because I'm a "cheapskate" but because I don't care ebough about those things to pay for premium versions of them. For instance, I don't live in a huge fancy house full of high end appliances and furniture, that just doesn't do anything for me. Such is the case for people who buy family cars and don't care about a more refined and costly V6 engine.

JDR76

I haven't seen gas under $3 a gallon in a very long time. Sigh.

SW17LS

I have, especially in VA and WV for regular.

Even so though, gas is expensive even if it is under $3.00. If you're somebody who doesnt derive enjoyment from a car, its just an empty expense too like any other utility or fuel cost.

JDR76

Yup. It really varies around the country. Certainly it's not just California with higher prices.

Fuel mileage is important to a LOT of buyers. As you said, just another expense for many.

SW17LS

Right, to many its like two heating systems, one that uses 30% less energy but still makes your house warm AND costs less upfront. Which would you chose?

Its hard for us to imagine that, but to 80%+ of the population, a car is just an appliance. Sure they shop for it and get kinda excited when they pick it out and get it but quickly, they just drive it around and lose interest in it. I mean, we just bought a new washer & dryer and that was kinda fun for a week lol. And yeah, I bought the ones with good reviews and large capacity that were pretty energy efficient and looked nice and were reasonably priced. The same criteria mainstream buyers look for in cars!

Toys4RJill

The new Sonata 1.6turbo is rated at 31MPG, a V6 Camry is 26MPG, the I4 Camry is at 31MPG. That is enough to sway 90% of the buyers. I think Toyota is the only midsize sedan left with a V6

mmarshall

.....that is, until they sample the Camry's V6.



Then, in that case, we have to give credit where it is due.


Actually, the upscale mid-size sedans offer V6s....it's the bread-and-butter ones that generally don't. Kudos to Toyota for continuing to do so....IMO, that partially makes up for their cheapness in a number of the interior parts.

Toys4RJill

I would say people do not cross shop Hyundai Sonatas with upscale sedans. Some people definitely cross shop high end Camry V6 models (and top level Accord models) with Avalon, Impala and Lacrosse alternatives.

mmarshall

The government, not consumers is forcing smaller engines in the name of CAFE figures. These engines produce V6 power when needed, but can run without the turbo for economy. All else equal, the penalty, of course, is less refinement, more noise/vibration, more stress on the engine internals (when the turbo is operating), and more heat produced.

OK, maybe I could have used a different term. My point was that (as many of us have pointed out in Car Chat)...those who can afford a vehicle should not complain about the cost of filling it up.

SW17LS

If its all the government and not consumers then why doesn't the V6 Camry outsell the 4 cyl Camry? The reason is it isn't all the government. Consumers want good fuel economy also.

Just because you can afford a vehicle doesnt mean you don't care about the cost of filling it up. I look for the best price for gas too...and I make way more money than the average Camry buyer. Fuel economy isn't much if any a criteria for me when I buy a car, but I'm an enthusiast that prefers performance over economy. Most people prefer economy over performance.