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Maybe they realize that electric vehicles are nowhere compared to ice vehicles in sales currently. Tesla is more of a fad than it is an ecological choice. It's a(n) (undeserved imo) status symbol. With Trump as president ICE vehicles aren't going anywhere. It's going to be foolish for these EU countries to adopt these "no-emissions" vehicles. The oil industry is too big to disappear and there isn't any way that you're going to replace fossil fuel or natural resource material power with these all-green sources. So in the medium term at the least, ICE cars are going to continue to be the go to and not expensive electric cars. There's seriously no reason to rush into these battery powered cars now. They're a niche market. That MIGHT change in 15-20 years, but in the meantime Toyota has it's eye on the future but is also concerned about the here and now. In the background they're doing their research and imo ICE cars won't be going anywhere anytime in the next couple of decades, maybe more.
With multiple car companies (Audi, Jaguar, Kia, Hyundai, Mercedes-Benz) jumping into the EV market with their own fully electric vehicles, why are Toyota and Lexus so late to adopt EV technology and come out with their own all-electric vehicle?
Toyota has two objectives. One is to make a profit; the other is to meet the federal and state mandates for hybrids.
They are currently meeting both mandates. They have no need to make a battery only vehicle which also be costly and put them in debt.
They are are a business, not a concern which is focused first on pleasing cranky people who write into forums.
I personally enjoy buying a car from an outfit that I know will stay in business.
Toyota is not Tucker.
Last edited by olldblue; Sep 27, 2019 at 03:41 PM.
Reason: Misspelling
Toyota has two objectives. One is to make a profit; the other is to meet the federal and state mandates for hybrids.
They are currently meeting both mandates. They have no need to make a battery only vehicle which also be costly and put them in debt.
They are are a business, not a concern which is focused first on pleasing cranky people who write into forums.
I personally enjoy buying a car from an outfit that I know will stay in business.
Toyota is not Tucker.
Welcome to CL as a new poster.
With all due respect, though, I have to comment on a couple of points here.
Toyota has two objectives. One is to make a profit; the other is to meet the federal and state mandates for hybrids.
They are currently meeting both mandates. They have no need to make a battery only vehicle which also be costly and put them in debt.
While partly true, your statement also partly overlooks the fact that a number of governments and jurisdictions are going to outlaw ICEs, period, even in hybrids. EVs are going to be their staple, regardless of what the public might want or what Toyota considers profitable. So, in some places, unless Toyota simply withdraws from those jurisdictions, period, they will be forced to develop and sell EVs whether they want to or not....or whether they consider it profitable or not.
They are are a business, not a concern which is focused first on pleasing cranky people who write into forums.
Well, as of your first post, although this is not meant to be a personal-barb, consider that you yourself are now one of those so-called "cranky people" who post in forums. Second, keep in mind that a number of those cranky people, particularly those who are not young any more and/or have worked and saved for many years, often have a lot of money to spend on new vehicles....and they freely spend it. Auto companies would be wise to produce what they want, cranky or not.
I personally enjoy buying a car from an outfit that I know will stay in business.
The more products you (and others) buy from them, the better chance they will stay in buisnesss.
Toyota is not Tucker
If you studied the life and business of Preston Tucker (I have, as an auto enthusiast), you will find that he was the target of several well-organized smear-campaigns......after introducing a number of then-revolutionary safety features, in the Tucker Torpedo, most of which, decades later, were incorporated into most new vehicles. But a person running a company that small, particularly back in the late 1940s, had almost no chance against a conglomerate of the press, certain government officials, and, of course, the big established automakers. Most other small auto companies of that period (Kaiser, Crosley, Hudson, Nash, Packard, etc...) didn't last very long after that either, despite attempts at mergers and buyouts.
Last edited by mmarshall; Sep 27, 2019 at 05:58 PM.
Previously, the engineer or group of engineers at Toyota Motor Corp were very against lithium ion batteries.
They said that energy densities were still not adequate, and that charging was slow, and the faster the charging the greater the battery degradation - hence TMC focused on hybrids and hydrogen fuel cell powered electric vehicles.
However, unlike Nissan with their ugly 2010 Leaf, Tesla has been able to design a much more attractively styled range of electric vehicles, with much better performance, range & dynamics, which have sold considerably better - forcing the world - to all move into electrification.
Incidentally, the 2010-18 Nissan Leaf didn't sell badly because it was an EV; it sold poorly due to a combination of: bland exterior & interior styling, less appealing truncated rear hatchback packaging, mediocre performance, range and handling qualities...
Had the 2010-18 Nissan Leaf been better styled like this Corolla below, and had better performance, range and dynamics like a Tesla, it would have sold far better like Tesla.
The new 2019 Nissan Leaf is far better styled, with better performance, range and dynamics - for its price - but I am still worried about the Leaf's new dashboard styling - which I believe could have been better for superior sales.
JDM RHD below.
Why can't the new Leaf have an interior more like its better styled bigger sister Maxima - then Leaf II sales would really take off???
Last edited by peteharvey; Sep 27, 2019 at 09:49 PM.
Previously, the engineer or group of engineers at Toyota Motor Corp were very against lithium ion batteries.
There is also the question of lithium as a natural resource, where the deposits are located, what countries control those deposits, how willing those countries are to trade or sell those resources, what a reasonable price is going to be, and other questions such as the safety and feasibility of actually mining the lithium itself.
Last edited by mmarshall; Sep 27, 2019 at 07:54 PM.
There is also the question of lithium as a natural resource, where the deposits are located, what countries control those deposits, how willing those countries are to trade or sell those resources, what a reasonable price is going to be, and other questions such as the safety and feasibility of actually mining the lithium itself.
LOL. It still is somewhat of a eyesore, almost 10 years later.
Yes, very true.
Apparently TMC concerned of few global lithium deposits, and cheap Chinese labor meant that the Chinese controlled lithium mining while expensive California's lithium mines were suspended.
Because they are not stupid. They realised long time ago that you should never go full retard electric, unless you've got technology to make a full electric vehicle that goes a lot further and doesn't take too long to be recharged. In late 2020 to early 2021 we will be seeing a whole new line-up of electric Toyotas and Lexuses that will revolutionize the electric vehicle market.
The Japanese are good as automotive appliances that make financial sense for a customer, but are very bad ts connecting with customers and understanding the emotional response to cars and how much that factors into what customer value in a car and how much they are willing to pay for that. They probably never believed people would be willing to pay what they pay for a Tesla Model S. They most likely looked at it from a financial perspective and said customers would never pay that much solely because they wouldn't get their extra money back in gas savings.
The Japanese are good as automotive appliances that make financial sense for a customer, but are very bad ts connecting with customers and understanding the emotional response to cars and how much that factors into what customer value in a car and how much they are willing to pay for that. They probably never believed people would be willing to pay what they pay for a Tesla Model S. They most likely looked at it from a financial perspective and said customers would never pay that much solely because they wouldn't get their extra money back in gas savings.
Toyota doesn't have a single innovative thing on the market sadly. Their sportiest car is a BMW and their turbo engines are garbage relative to their competition (BMW's inline turbo 4 gets better gas mileage and horsepower). Toyota lost their innovative touch years ago. I can't think of a single segment in which they play that they are the class leaders in innovation.
Because they are not stupid. They realised long time ago that you should never go full retard electric, unless you've got technology to make a full electric vehicle that goes a lot further and doesn't take too long to be recharged. In late 2020 to early 2021 we will be seeing a whole new line-up of electric Toyotas and Lexuses that will revolutionize the electric vehicle market.
Unfortunately they will revolutionize nothing. They will be at the bottom of the EV pack or bottom middle at the very best. Toyota is the manufacturer that still holds the title for the worst PHEV model ever released worldwide, prev generation Prius PHEV. Current Prius Prime fails to match EV range of Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV that has been on the market since 2013.
Basically they have missed out on the trend such as turbos and EVs by banking on Hybrid too much (there was no significant updates in electric components close to 10 years now but that's for another topic) and they took a bet on FCV thanks to oil money.
Honda is releasing their first ever EV next summer, we've seen the final product on the floor. Mazda just revealed their first monstrous PHEV. Nissan single handedly pioneered small car EV market with Leaf that has been in production for close to a decade. And now Toyota has shown us their first ever production EV - kei car for Japan.
Toyota doesn't have a single innovative thing on the market sadly. Their sportiest car is a BMW and their turbo engines are garbage relative to their competition (BMW's inline turbo 4 gets better gas mileage and horsepower). Toyota lost their innovative touch years ago. I can't think of a single segment in which they play that they are the class leaders in innovation.
Toyota still leads the way with hybrids, even if EVs have stolen the buzz. Toyota will probably sell more RAV4 Hybrids than Tesla sells anything.
But yes, toyota and lexus’ line-up is very banal and most of it far behind the times. The lc500 is a sweet looking car but i still chuckle that it has the same trunk space as a miata. and no android auto.
Second, keep in mind that a number of those cranky people, particularly those who are not young any more and/or have worked and saved for many years, often have a lot of money to spend on new vehicles....and they freely spend it. Auto companies would be wise to produce what they want, cranky or not.
