MT: Lexus: Hybrids Could Become Preferred Performance Powertrain
07-17-19, 05:32 PM
#16
Lexus, with the help of Toyota, is probably in a good spot already with EPA fuel economy ratings, so it does not need to offer any more electrified models at the moment to boost its rating. And without dirty diesels, it does not have to turn to electrification to clean up its image, like the European (luxury) automakers have been forced to do.
The already acceptable EPA ratings also means that Lexus does not need to add idle-stop systems to more cars in its lineup. Micro-hybrid (idle-stop) systems may help to save fuel in the real world -- dependent upon your local driving conditions -- but they contribute very little to official EPA ratings, since the EPA test does not include a large number of long stops that would make engine shutdowns truly beneficial.
The already acceptable EPA ratings also means that Lexus does not need to add idle-stop systems to more cars in its lineup. Micro-hybrid (idle-stop) systems may help to save fuel in the real world -- dependent upon your local driving conditions -- but they contribute very little to official EPA ratings, since the EPA test does not include a large number of long stops that would make engine shutdowns truly beneficial.
07-17-19, 05:38 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Toyota has start-stop tech for non hybrid motors. Used in markets outside the US. 1.2 turbo comes to mind. The current Highlander in the US has it. All of the hybrids have this feature too.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-17-19 at 05:47 PM.
07-17-19, 06:05 PM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
I proposed that same question when the technology first debuted. I had the same concern. But the experts weighed in and said it does not cause premature wear. I still believe it may if they don't beef up starter components (maybe they have).
07-17-19, 06:59 PM
#19
Lexus Champion
The concern is that idle-stop systems put more wear on the starter but the starters on idle-stop systems have been beefed up to prevent this.
07-18-19, 07:22 AM
#20
And the idle-stop idea is just a stepping-stone on the way to full hybridization, where the "starter" motor is built into the powertrain, not engaging and disengaging in the traditional fashion. The 3.5L ICE on my RX is started and stopped many dozens of times even in the course of a short trip to the market, and since the starting is done by a beefy motor/generator driven by circuits delivering 600v, the spinning-up is pretty much transparent to the driver.
As for the Lexus comment about turbos, perhaps they will be moving to a world where perhaps half of the total horsepower can come from the hybrid motors under full-throttle (but temporary) conditions. Lots of power but only for 30 seconds or so. Plenty for passing; not so much for climbing Pikes Peak.
One additional thought: I am not a tree-hugger and didn't buy the RX hybrid to save the planet--I just thought it was brilliant technology meant to address the weaknesses of ICE operation. What I have concluded is that I most enjoy shift-free driving. The ICE and a big motor/generator share a planetary gearset such that the computer can tell the motor to spin forwards or backwards in order to put the ICE at an appropriate rpm for power needs at that instant. So no need for a bunch of gears to provide fixed ratios. Nowadays when I drive a conventional car I am aware of the constant hunt-and-peck of the powertrain, upshifting and downshifting to try to find a good rpm for the ICE for the moment. Downright primitive.
As for the Lexus comment about turbos, perhaps they will be moving to a world where perhaps half of the total horsepower can come from the hybrid motors under full-throttle (but temporary) conditions. Lots of power but only for 30 seconds or so. Plenty for passing; not so much for climbing Pikes Peak.
One additional thought: I am not a tree-hugger and didn't buy the RX hybrid to save the planet--I just thought it was brilliant technology meant to address the weaknesses of ICE operation. What I have concluded is that I most enjoy shift-free driving. The ICE and a big motor/generator share a planetary gearset such that the computer can tell the motor to spin forwards or backwards in order to put the ICE at an appropriate rpm for power needs at that instant. So no need for a bunch of gears to provide fixed ratios. Nowadays when I drive a conventional car I am aware of the constant hunt-and-peck of the powertrain, upshifting and downshifting to try to find a good rpm for the ICE for the moment. Downright primitive.
Last edited by riredale; 07-18-19 at 07:39 AM.
07-18-19, 07:40 AM
#21
The current IS should have been offered with a hybrid option in the U.S.
I view much of this announcement as Lexus playing catch up or just stating what many other manufacturers have already stated. What I rather hear and see is them change direction with their front-end styling. The reverse angle, gaping mouth grille is harsh and passe.
Also, wouldn't adding start/stop technology be a quick and easy way to improve fuel economy? It seems many/most luxury brands already implement this in a mostly successful way.
I view much of this announcement as Lexus playing catch up or just stating what many other manufacturers have already stated. What I rather hear and see is them change direction with their front-end styling. The reverse angle, gaping mouth grille is harsh and passe.
Also, wouldn't adding start/stop technology be a quick and easy way to improve fuel economy? It seems many/most luxury brands already implement this in a mostly successful way.
BMW hybrids on the other hand, is using a version of the excellent ZF 8 speed gearbox developed with hybrid drive in mind by replacing the torque converter with a powerful motor.
Recently i I drove the BMW G30 320d. That is a diesel powered car. It’s does 0-60 around 6 seconds vs the 8.5 of the Lexus hybrid. But its not at all about the actual performance figure. It was the silent V8 like thrust accelerating to join the autobahn that inspired me to find out how fast it was claimed to be.
Is Lexus, the hybrid leader, falling behind? Not sure but not waiting around to find out.
07-18-19, 09:02 AM
#22
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by riredale
And the idle-stop idea is just a stepping-stone on the way to full hybridization, where the "starter" motor is built into the powertrain, not engaging and disengaging in the traditional fashion. The 3.5L ICE on my RX is started and stopped many dozens of times even in the course of a short trip to the market, and since the starting is done by a beefy motor/generator driven by circuits delivering 600v, the spinning-up is pretty much transparent to the driver.
As for the Lexus comment about turbos, perhaps they will be moving to a world where perhaps half of the total horsepower can come from the hybrid motors under full-throttle (but temporary) conditions. Lots of power but only for 30 seconds or so. Plenty for passing; not so much for climbing Pikes Peak.
One additional thought: I am not a tree-hugger and didn't buy the RX hybrid to save the planet--I just thought it was brilliant technology meant to address the weaknesses of ICE operation. What I have concluded is that I most enjoy shift-free driving. The ICE and a big motor/generator share a planetary gearset such that the computer can tell the motor to spin forwards or backwards in order to put the ICE at an appropriate rpm for power needs at that instant. So no need for a bunch of gears to provide fixed ratios. Nowadays when I drive a conventional car I am aware of the constant hunt-and-peck of the powertrain, upshifting and downshifting to try to find a good rpm for the ICE for the moment. Downright primitive.
As for the Lexus comment about turbos, perhaps they will be moving to a world where perhaps half of the total horsepower can come from the hybrid motors under full-throttle (but temporary) conditions. Lots of power but only for 30 seconds or so. Plenty for passing; not so much for climbing Pikes Peak.
One additional thought: I am not a tree-hugger and didn't buy the RX hybrid to save the planet--I just thought it was brilliant technology meant to address the weaknesses of ICE operation. What I have concluded is that I most enjoy shift-free driving. The ICE and a big motor/generator share a planetary gearset such that the computer can tell the motor to spin forwards or backwards in order to put the ICE at an appropriate rpm for power needs at that instant. So no need for a bunch of gears to provide fixed ratios. Nowadays when I drive a conventional car I am aware of the constant hunt-and-peck of the powertrain, upshifting and downshifting to try to find a good rpm for the ICE for the moment. Downright primitive.
07-19-19, 05:24 AM
#23
Intermediate
I'm ok with the lower power, but it needs to come at a lower premium. 10k premium for the GS should have been 450hp to get it up to par with the 550i. but no...lexus always has to be behind on the power. like how everyone 's top end v6 engines from 10 years ago are all now up at least to 350 yet the most lexus can muster is 311hp with slightly better mpg ratings. I am looking forward to the new interiors but am doubtful about the powertrains coming anytime soon
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