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Luxury car percentages

 
Old 05-15-19, 12:00 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
I don’t get the graph. If that’s share of the LUXURY car market, then how come the numbers don’t come close to adding up to 100 anywhere? If instead, it’s share of the OVERALL car market, there’s no way in hell Cadillac had almost 35% at one time.
Cadillac DID, at one time, have a large share of the luxury-car market....but that was several decades ago.

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Keep in mind that Roger Smith made big profits (maybe even record) for their shareholders at the expense of the consumer....And you are seeing these harmful effects come back to haunt GM today.....the declining market share is just part of it.


Mary Barra, though, despite her recent controversial decisions, did a lot of good for the company, and brought back much of that old GM "Mark of Excellence" quality from the 1960s.

As far as GM's declining market share, the obvious question is.....what came first, the chicken or the egg? Did market share decline because GM eliminated five of its divisions, or did declining share force the elimination of those divisions? Personally (and this is simply my opinion, not necessarily fact), from what I've seen over the years, I am of the opinion that it is the former.......GM shot itself in the foot by eliminating these divisions. You cannot sell what you don't produce.

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Old 05-15-19, 12:12 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Johnhav430 View Post
But let's say the luxury market is 19X today what it was in 1990, like Amazon since 1998..
If it were 19X what is what today, and Cadillac maintained their market share, then you would see this reflection. Trouble is, with all the new entrants into the luxury field, market share changes. I wonder what Lexus market share was in 2003 and what it was today?

Almost all established brands are growing outside of the US vs the US. Cadillac and Lexus are probably selling the same in China and the rest of the world.
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Old 05-15-19, 01:43 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
Cadillac DID, at one time, have a large share of the luxury-car market....but that was several decades ago.
i never said they didn't. but they didn't have 35% of the ENTIRE car market.

As far as GM's declining market share, the obvious question is.....what came first, the chicken or the egg? Did market share decline because GM eliminated five of its divisions, or did declining share force the elimination of those divisions? Personally (and this is simply my opinion, not necessarily fact), from what I've seen over the years, I am of the opinion that it is the former.......GM shot itself in the foot by eliminating these divisions. You cannot sell what you don't produce.
and you cannot sell junk and gm was producing vast quantities of junk, stuffing dealers and junk would sit on lots until they had blowout sales, losing money... gm was simply producing too much of what wouldn't sell, so restructuring was needed and they couldn't fix all the brands at once. oldsmobile and saturn were already on borrowed time... i was more saddened to see pontiac go. not important but what were the other two?

no one can deny that gm's products today are vastly superior in terms of quality than ever before. but their price points are sometimes not that competitive, and of course they're still working on product mix, features, etc. cadillac has of course been reinvented a few times. i personally like the newest design language and it's now pretty consistent. the xt4, xt5 seem to be doing well. they need to upgrade the escalade even though it sells pretty well and makes gm a load of money. saw a ct6 yesterday and man that looked sharp.

the volt and bolt were innovative for sure, but just didn't quite have the range, room or design to really catch fire. looks like the hyundai kona ev is going to eat the bolt's lunch until they have a new version. a friend with a volt is going to get a kona soon.

back to luxury percentages though... gm will keep at it with cadillac, hopefully they have an ev cadillac soon, maybe before tesla's y arrives.
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Old 05-15-19, 01:55 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
i never said they didn't. but they didn't have 35% of the ENTIRE car market.

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and you cannot sell junk and gm was producing vast quantities of junk, stuffing dealers and junk would sit on lots until they had blowout sales, losing money... gm was simply producing too much of what wouldn't sell, so restructuring was needed and they couldn't fix all the brands at once. oldsmobile and saturn were already on borrowed time... i was more saddened to see pontiac go. not important but what were the other two?

no one can deny that gm's products today are vastly superior in terms of quality than ever before. but their price points are sometimes not that competitive, and of course they're still working on product mix, features, etc. cadillac has of course been reinvented a few times. i personally like the newest design language and it's now pretty consistent. the xt4, xt5 seem to be doing well. they need to upgrade the escalade even though it sells pretty well and makes gm a load of money. saw a ct6 yesterday and man that looked sharp.

the volt and bolt were innovative for sure, but just didn't quite have the range, room or design to really catch fire. looks like the hyundai kona ev is going to eat the bolt's lunch until they have a new version. a friend with a volt is going to get a kona soon.

back to luxury percentages though... gm will keep at it with cadillac, hopefully they have an ev cadillac soon, maybe before tesla's y arrives.
I know that mmarshall (and others) like to tout how GM and other American car companies have better quality products than they used to. But BFD--so does everyone. The fact is, very few, if any, GM products are at or near the top product in its category. In almost every instance, even if a GM product is "nice" or "good", there's almost always a competitor that's better. When was the last time you read a review of a GM product that didn't knock the interior as being either cheap or bland? This has been a problem for decades; yes, the new XT4 and CT5 are "better"--but only better than the bad interior of the predecessor Caddy models, and NOT better than each car's competitors. And, to your point, if Caddy is going to charge as much for an XT4 as an X3 or Q5, that's a tough sell when looking at 2 high quality interiors from the driver's seat. A top notch interior is going to go a longer way to selling more Caddy's than great driving dynamics.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:12 PM
  #20  
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"......NOT better than each car's competitors......"

Ah, as an XT4 owner that used to have a Lexus NX the interior is as good or better to me and the infotainment system on the Caddy is far superior. The Entune system is crap and needs a total revision along with eliminating the awful touchpad. But it's hard to get over the bias in this group which keeps spewing out nonsense.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:16 PM
  #21  
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According to the graph, it appears Cadillac and BMW are the only ones with an uptick in share the last year. It's what have you done for me lately that counts, not 30 years ago. Cadillac is doing a nice turn around and will only get better in the coming years. Their emphasis on electric models will be interesting to see.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:17 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by rogerh00 View Post
"......NOT better than each car's competitors......"

Ah, as an XT4 owner that used to have a Lexus NX the interior is as good or better to me and the infotainment system on the Caddy is far superior. The Entune system is crap and needs a total revision along with eliminating the awful touchpad. But it's hard to get over the bias in this group which keeps spewing out nonsense.
Yes, but past perceptions of the GM will make people go for a Lexus, Acura or perhaps a German model.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:26 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Yes, but past perceptions of the GM will make people go for a Lexus, Acura or perhaps a German model.
Not so much perceptions but that would depend on your actual experiences with those brands also. As I had with my Lexus NX. I moved on.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:28 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by rogerh00 View Post
Not so much perceptions but that would depend on your actual experiences with those brands also. As I had with my Lexus NX. I moved on.
You have not held a modern GM product long enough to inform us how well they hold up. The past perceptions of GM is why the declining market share of GM is still going on.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:30 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
It is not necessarily because of having to "stay away" from GM. With the Saab, Hummer, Pontiac, Saturn, and Oldsmobile Divisions gone,.
People have been steering clear (pun intended) and driving towards (pun again intended) other brands since the 1970s... this was happening long before GM put the brands like SAAB, Pontiac and Olds into the ditch (pun intended again). Toyota and Honda have been gaining market share in the years GM has lost it


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Old 05-15-19, 02:37 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
You have not held a modern GM product long enough to inform us how well they hold up. The past perceptions of GM is why the declining market share of GM is still going on.
You didn't take note of the last year in the graph as i pointed out in a previous post.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:41 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by rogerh00 View Post
You didn't take note of the last year in the graph as i pointed out in a previous post.
I did. My comments are about GM market share declines.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:44 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
You have not held a modern GM product long enough to inform us how well they hold up. The past perceptions of GM is why the declining market share of GM is still going on.
Well, I'm not a good one to chastise. I don't recall saying anything about how a Cadillac holds up. I lease my vehicles for 2-3 years so I don't have any issues. I thought we were talking about market share anyway.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:49 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by tex2670 View Post
I know that mmarshall (and others) like to tout how GM and other American car companies have better quality products than they used to. But BFD--so does everyone. The fact is, very few, if any, GM products are at or near the top product in its category. In almost every instance, even if a GM product is "nice" or "good", there's almost always a competitor that's better. When was the last time you read a review of a GM product that didn't knock the interior as being either cheap or bland? This has been a problem for decades; yes, the new XT4 and CT5 are "better"--but only better than the bad interior of the predecessor Caddy models, and NOT better than each car's competitors. And, to your point, if Caddy is going to charge as much for an XT4 as an X3 or Q5, that's a tough sell when looking at 2 high quality interiors from the driver's seat. A top notch interior is going to go a longer way to selling more Caddy's than great driving dynamics.
gm has this other (enormous) problem, which is simply way too many workers, WAAAAAY too many retirees still drawing massive pensions and benefits, and still the union us vs them mentality. all that affects the margins gm must make, while still being competitive enough, to stay in business. it's a VERY difficult balancing act. one ceo a decade or so ago said gm will be fine as long as the retirees die quickly enough!

so that's why sometimes compromises are made by gm... i've no doubt they have very talented designers, but management knows they simply have to make certain margins to keep going which sometimes means using less nice materials and designs than they would otherwise like.

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
You have not held a modern GM product long enough to inform us how well they hold up. The past perceptions of GM is why the declining market share of GM is still going on.
how long is long enough in your view? many out there will NEVER EVER buy a gm product, or maybe even a ford, chrysler, etc. i once thought i'd never buy a ford. bought 2, loved 'em. never thought i'd buy a chrysler (jeep). did that, loved it. for those that can keep an open mind, there's great choices out there. but some won't venture out of a small comfort zone, and that's their prerogative.

Originally Posted by rogerh00 View Post
Ah, as an XT4 owner that used to have a Lexus NX the interior is as good or better to me and the infotainment system on the Caddy is far superior. The Entune system is crap and needs a total revision along with eliminating the awful touchpad. But it's hard to get over the bias in this group which keeps spewing out nonsense.
great post, thanks. and love your XT4!

Originally Posted by rogerh00 View Post
According to the graph, it appears Cadillac and BMW are the only ones with an uptick in share the last year. It's what have you done for me lately that counts, not 30 years ago. Cadillac is doing a nice turn around and will only get better in the coming years. Their emphasis on electric models will be interesting to see.
exactly, cadillac's line up right now is better than it's been in 2 decades. will market share spike overnight? of course not. but slow and steady and continuous improvement usually wins the race or at least gets you a respectable showing. when i got my g90 i should have looked at a ct6 but i was too smitten with the g90.
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Old 05-15-19, 02:59 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
how long is long enough in your view?
I don't think GM will ever gain market share. Perhaps if they bottom out, that said, they are still the #1 US brand for overall sales, but they just lose a percentage every single year.

Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
. i once thought i'd never buy a ford. bought 2, loved 'em. never thought i'd buy a chrysler (jeep). did that, loved it. for those that can keep an open mind, there's great choices out there. but some won't venture out of a small comfort zone, and that's their prerogative.
It is admirable that you have changed brands all the time. BUT you don't keep them long enough and the fact that your Jeep was so lovable is irrelevant as you did not buy another one. Now contrast that to my family, my father hated his Lexus and knew it was not right for him, so he went with an Avalon realizing it was the correct vehicle. Or any case, my mother knew her past 4Runner was not to be given away, so we kept it and she got another one. (we know, you don't like the new 4Runner) If you buy another Genesis, than that is very telling.

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