Lets put this debate to bed: 45 series tires/18" wheel Toyota shout out
#16
Lexus Fanatic
This is a good topic. I, myself, feel a bit differently. I believe the vehicles ride has to do with the suspension and its tuning. 100%. Tires don't "ride". However, tires do make a huge difference in transferring noise into the cabin, which is not considered "ride". The fact is, lower profile tires cannot insulate road noise as well as a taller profile tire. Sure, there are some tires that do better than others but all things being equal, the taller tire is quieter.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-14-19 at 05:59 AM.
#17
Lexus Fanatic
LOL putting this to bed would be like expecting everybody to understand what octane represents. (You know, the 'I switched to 87 and my mpgs went down!'). Or even calculus, because imho calculus helps to understand mph which in turn is related to mpgs (how do you calculate mph, instantaneously?)
When I was a young lad I had a brand new Porsche with forged aluminum wheels. The tires were 16". Sixteen inches. On the rears were 245/45-16. 45 series, which was incredible at the time.
Today, my DD is a 13.5 y.o. LS. The tires are 245/45-18. The difference between this car, and the Porsche, is 2" worth or rim, and additional unsprung weight. Imagine having 2" less rim, and the material being forged instead of cast aluminum? Did the Porsche inherently ride poorly due to having 45's? No.
My coupe has 35's in the rear, and the ride is just fine. I just think that man wants a number to evaluate goodness, without the background, and that's why debates go around and around. 93 good. 87 bad. 65 good. 45 bad. $132,900 good. $132,899.99 bad. Sony called it the megapixel conundrum. my .02
When I was a young lad I had a brand new Porsche with forged aluminum wheels. The tires were 16". Sixteen inches. On the rears were 245/45-16. 45 series, which was incredible at the time.
Today, my DD is a 13.5 y.o. LS. The tires are 245/45-18. The difference between this car, and the Porsche, is 2" worth or rim, and additional unsprung weight. Imagine having 2" less rim, and the material being forged instead of cast aluminum? Did the Porsche inherently ride poorly due to having 45's? No.
My coupe has 35's in the rear, and the ride is just fine. I just think that man wants a number to evaluate goodness, without the background, and that's why debates go around and around. 93 good. 87 bad. 65 good. 45 bad. $132,900 good. $132,899.99 bad. Sony called it the megapixel conundrum. my .02
#18
Lexus Fanatic
LOL putting this to bed would be like expecting everybody to understand what octane represents. (You know, the 'I switched to 87 and my mpgs went down!'). Or even calculus, because imho calculus helps to understand mph which in turn is related to mpgs (how do you calculate mph, instantaneously?)
When I was a young lad I had a brand new Porsche with forged aluminum wheels. The tires were 16". Sixteen inches. On the rears were 245/45-16. 45 series, which was incredible at the time.
Today, my DD is a 13.5 y.o. LS. The tires are 245/45-18. The difference between this car, and the Porsche, is 2" worth or rim, and additional unsprung weight. Imagine having 2" less rim, and the material being forged instead of cast aluminum? Did the Porsche inherently ride poorly due to having 45's? No.
My coupe has 35's in the rear, and the ride is just fine. I just think that man wants a number to evaluate goodness, without the background, and that's why debates go around and around. 93 good. 87 bad. 65 good. 45 bad. $132,900 good. $132,899.99 bad. Sony called it the megapixel conundrum. my .02
When I was a young lad I had a brand new Porsche with forged aluminum wheels. The tires were 16". Sixteen inches. On the rears were 245/45-16. 45 series, which was incredible at the time.
Today, my DD is a 13.5 y.o. LS. The tires are 245/45-18. The difference between this car, and the Porsche, is 2" worth or rim, and additional unsprung weight. Imagine having 2" less rim, and the material being forged instead of cast aluminum? Did the Porsche inherently ride poorly due to having 45's? No.
My coupe has 35's in the rear, and the ride is just fine. I just think that man wants a number to evaluate goodness, without the background, and that's why debates go around and around. 93 good. 87 bad. 65 good. 45 bad. $132,900 good. $132,899.99 bad. Sony called it the megapixel conundrum. my .02
One thing you have to keep in mind, on rear or mid-engined Porsches, is that no matter what tire size you have, the center of gravity, with the heavy powertrain behind the driver, is rearward enough for the relatively light front end to have quick steering response (and avoid understeer) without having a truck-firm suspension that will jar you and transmit a lot of sharp impacts. Because the load on the front tires, from less weight, is lower, they can do more of the steering itself and not have to, at the same time, overcome the inertia and kinetic energy of the vehicle's weight. The more even center of gravity also allows superbly short braking distances because, on sudden braking, the rear-weight bias is transferred forward to the approximate center of the vehicle, which throws a (roughly) equal weight of the braking force on all four of the brakes, not just the overburdened two front ones. Lastly, when one considers what a new Porsche costs (you yourself hinted at it in your post above) one can understand how or why the engineers were able to include very high-quality suspension parts that, simply by themselves, are well-above what one will find in more bread-and-butter, more run-of-the-mill vehicles.
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yes. This all makes sense. I do know a Maybach has 40 on the front, 35 on the rear, and they are Good Year F1 tires. So suspension tuning plays a bigger roll
#22
Super Moderator
Ours is a 2018, and those were the largest factory wheels for that year. The 2019 has optional 22". 20" is standard on the Prestige models (optional on Premium Plus) for both years. Nothing smaller than 18" will clear the front brakes.
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
#27
Lexus Champion
#28
Lexus Fanatic
This is a good topic. I, myself, feel a bit differently. I believe the vehicles ride has to do with the suspension and its tuning. 100%. Tires don't "ride". However, tires do make a huge difference in transferring noise into the cabin, which is not considered "ride". The fact is, lower profile tires cannot insulate road noise as well as a taller profile tire. Sure, there are some tires that do better than others but all things being equal, the taller tire is quieter.
When you step on a stone wearing a pair of leather soled house slippers, or a pair of running shoes which one transmits more of the sharpness of the stone to your foot? The more sidewall the thicker the "sole", the more cushioning. Thats just physics.
If you drive the same car on smaller wheels and larger wheels you absolutely will feel a difference in ride. I've owned the same car on 18s with 50 series tires and 19s with 45 series tires and despite the 460L having air suspension and a longer wheelbase, the sharpness of that initial bump or pothole hit is definitely sharper with the 19s. Overall, the 460L rides better because its more planted and isolated with less vibration, but that initial strike the firmness is definitely threre.
As for road noise, you might be surprised that a slightly lower profile tire might actually be quieter
Interesting YouTube Comparison:
#29
Lexus Fanatic
I gotta tell you, nobody should not go to a "FREE" BMW Ultimate Driving Experience event. C'mon, it's free. You don't have to sell your email or phone# or any of that.
They start with the very basics--what happens when you accelerate? What happens when you brake? Why your grandpa was taught hands at 10 and 2, and why since 1992 nobody does that anymore. Where you should begin a turn, where you should exit. And where I am headed....how tires actually work for the vehicle.
And they were not like Porsche--Porsche told me always on the gas, always on the brakes, i.e. full on. Never, ever, in between (coasting). BMW does not have you drive like that at their events (you are allowed to coast), but they will push you further than what you do on the road.
My dad would get on me when I started listing out facts, but did not know the background behind them. It seemed like this thread wanted a YES or NO answer to series, i.e. 45. Is it good, or bad. There is a heck of a lot of more info needed to answer. Today it seems we want one measure of goodness, understanding is optional.
Are staggered tires better? In general, no, from the factory? Yes.
They start with the very basics--what happens when you accelerate? What happens when you brake? Why your grandpa was taught hands at 10 and 2, and why since 1992 nobody does that anymore. Where you should begin a turn, where you should exit. And where I am headed....how tires actually work for the vehicle.
And they were not like Porsche--Porsche told me always on the gas, always on the brakes, i.e. full on. Never, ever, in between (coasting). BMW does not have you drive like that at their events (you are allowed to coast), but they will push you further than what you do on the road.
My dad would get on me when I started listing out facts, but did not know the background behind them. It seemed like this thread wanted a YES or NO answer to series, i.e. 45. Is it good, or bad. There is a heck of a lot of more info needed to answer. Today it seems we want one measure of goodness, understanding is optional.
Are staggered tires better? In general, no, from the factory? Yes.
#30
Lexus Fanatic