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Lets put this debate to bed: 45 series tires/18" wheel Toyota shout out

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Lets put this debate to bed: 45 series tires/18" wheel Toyota shout out

 
Old 05-13-19, 03:00 PM
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LexsCTJill
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Default Lets put this debate to bed: 45 series tires/18" wheel Toyota shout out

So we have been vacationing, visiting family and friends, attending weddings and finally retirement house shopping all along the eastern coast of the United States. We have been driving around my fathers 19 Avalon, it is equipped with 45 series tires and 18" wheels.

Is it possible we can put the debate to bed as to every notion that lower series tires or larger wheels ride to firmly? We have put over 10,000 miles on a 19 Avalon limited and the ride is just perfect. It has just the right softness as well as just the right firmness for handling. We have absolutely no complaints about the ride. Now unlike my parents 15 ES350 that rode on higher profile tires and 17" inch wheels, the ride was just a tad to firm.


Like I said so many times, the turning is just as important as the tires.


We also did not/have not used Apple Car Play at all during my trip. Toyota navigation is just right at this point. Never faltered. Was just a pleasure to use. (no real complaints about the ES or my old CT either) but I don't remember the real time traffic routing .

Thoughts?

Last edited by LexsCTJill; 05-13-19 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 05-13-19, 03:09 PM
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bagwell
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and put those same exact wheels/tires on a different model car and it will ride differently.....each car's suspension is different.

Also, what's the cost to update the Toyota navigation? Something outrageous I bet - vs not required for Google or Apple maps.
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Old 05-13-19, 03:10 PM
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Were the tires inflated properly....to the figure posted on the drivers' door jam? Let the tires get too soft, and, sure, they will ride a little easier...but will wear unevenly and build up heat. Steering response could also be affected.

I can't comment on the 45-series Avalon, but I sampled a new 2019 ES350 with the same wheel/tire package, and didn't like it at all. I did, however, sample a base-version 55-series 2019 Avalon XLE, and it rode noticeably better and was quieter...almost as refined as my Lacrosse.

I have, BTW, seen a few vehicles with 45's where I liked the ride (as you note, perhaps due to suspension tuning), but they are few and far between.

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Old 05-13-19, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bagwell View Post
and put those same exact wheels/tires on a different model car and it will ride differently.....each car's suspension is different.
.
From I have seen, people don't blame the suspension.

Originally Posted by bagwell View Post

Also, what's the cost to update the Toyota navigation? Something outrageous I bet - vs not required for Google or Apple maps.
It is 3 years free updates.
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Old 05-13-19, 03:11 PM
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My LS460L has 45 series tires and 19s and it rides beautifully too. BUT, it would ride even better on thicker sidewall tires, as would your parents' Avalon. Thats just physics. Riding "too firmly" is totally subjective. Like you, I can't imagine anyone would ride in or drive my LS460L on 45 series tires and think it rode too firmly.

Thicker sidewall tires will always make the ride softer, but its a tradeoff. It also reduces handling, slows turn in and steering response, there's the look factor too. Do I feel like I need thicker sidewall tires on my LS? No. I agree with your assessment of the Avalon too having driven one on 18s.

The idea that a low profile tire must equal poor ride is totally not the case I agree.
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Old 05-13-19, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
Were the tires inflated properly....to the figure posted on the drivers' door jam?.
The tires were actually over inflated. At least the on board display said it was set at 40-41
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Old 05-13-19, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SW17LS View Post
he idea that a low profile tire must equal poor ride is totally not the case I agree.
Awesome.


Originally Posted by SW17LS View Post
Thicker sidewall tires will always make the ride softer, but its a tradeoff.
Quality of tire is also going to have an influence. The Avalon tires were Hankook Energi . Never thought I would ever say good things about them, but they were great. My Michelins don't ride as nice at my outgoing Good Years.
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Old 05-13-19, 04:45 PM
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Where was the debate? I mustíve missed it
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Old 05-13-19, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
So we have been vacationing, visiting family and friends, attending weddings and finally retirement house shopping all along the eastern coast of the United States. We have been driving around my fathers 19 Avalon, it is equipped with 45 series tires and 18" wheels.

Is it possible we can put the debate to bed as to every notion that lower series tires or larger wheels ride to firmly? We have put over 10,000 miles on a 19 Avalon limited and the ride is just perfect. It has just the right softness as well as just the right firmness for handling. We have absolutely no complaints about the ride. Now unlike my parents 15 ES350 that rode on higher profile tires and 17" inch wheels, the ride was just a tad to firm.


Like I said so many times, the turning is just as important as the tires.


We also did not/have not used Apple Car Play at all during my trip. Toyota navigation is just right at this point. Never faltered. Was just a pleasure to use. (no real complaints about the ES or my old CT either) but I don't remember the real time traffic routing .

Thoughts?
Until you hit a pothole.....

I'm not going to argue against them--I have 45 series 18" on my car, and my wife has 50 series 20" on hers. But I don't want a cushy ride anyway.
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Old 05-13-19, 05:24 PM
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To be fair, Jill, 18" wheels are by no means large, and 45 series rubber on those wheels isn't an aggressively low profile (this is tied to tire width, the number refers to the ratio the sidewall bears to tire width, in other words in this case the sidewall is 45% of the tire width).

Having said that, and I don't doubt for one second that the Avalon had a great ride, it's absolutely true that if you leave everything else the same but the tires, lower profile rubber is ALWAYS going to transmit more NVH than a tire with a bigger sidewall assuming similar inflation.

If the car you were in had a sidewall that was 30% of the tire's width, it would not ride as well as the 45 series tires you rode on.

If the car you were in had a sidewall that was 55% of the tire's width, it would likely ride softer than the 45 series tires you rode on.

You can compensate for all of this with softer or firmer springs/damping and other suspension tuning. But if all you are changing is a tire, a lower profile tire is generally going to negatively impact ride quality.

The Avalon (or any car for that matter) riding great on a 18/XXX/45 or whatever doesn't undermine the point - all else being equal, smaller sidewall ratios will transmit more NVH than larger sidewall ratios assuming the wheels are identical.

When people talk about the impact of the sidewalls, they are generally not thinking about soft riding cars like the Avalon. While the principle still holds good, it's going to be less noticeable on an 18 wheel on a softly sprung car than it would be if we were to put a lower profile tire on a bigger wheel on a car that was more firmly sprung,

What you say is correct, an Avalon on an 18" wheel with 45 series rubber rides great. But it doesn't change the fact that less sidewall will, all else being equal, negatively impact ride quality,

The key point here, again, is *all else being equal*. When people talk about the impact of the sidewall on ride quality, they are talking about the impact of the tire in isolation, without other measures (tuning, damping, tire compound) to compensate. Changing just this one variable will change the ride. It is true to say that the use of a low profile tire does not automatically mean that the ride will be poor - but if you were to change the profile of the tires on any given car, and nothing else, mthere will absolutely be some impact on the ride in either direction.

Last edited by swajames; 05-13-19 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 05-13-19, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Quality of tire is also going to have an influence. The Avalon tires were Hankook Energi . Never thought I would ever say good things about them, but they were great. My Michelins don't ride as nice at my outgoing Good Years.
For sure, tires are new too. Hopefully they stay nice as they wear.
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Old 05-13-19, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by swajames View Post
To be fair, Jill, 18" wheels are by no means large, and 45 series rubber on those wheels isn't an aggressively low profile (this is tied to tire width, the number refers to the ratio the sidewall bears to tire width, in other words in this case the sidewall is 45% of the tire width).

Having said that, and I don't doubt for one second that the Avalon had a great ride, it's absolutely true that if you leave everything else the same but the tires, lower profile rubber is ALWAYS going to transmit more NVH than a tire with a bigger sidewall assuming similar inflation.

If the car you were in had a sidewall that was 30% of the tire's width, it would not ride as well as the 45 series tires you rode on.

If the car you were in had a sidewall that was 55% of the tire's width, it would likely ride softer than the 45 series tires you rode on.

You can compensate for all of this with softer or firmer springs/damping and other suspension tuning. But if all you are changing is a tire, a lower profile tire is generally going to negatively impact ride quality.

The Avalon (or any car for that matter) riding great on a 18/XXX/45 or whatever doesn't undermine the point - all else being equal, smaller sidewall ratios will transmit more NVH than larger sidewall ratios assuming the wheels are identical.

When people talk about the impact of the sidewalls, they are generally not thinking about soft riding cars like the Avalon. While the principle still holds good, it's going to be less noticeable on an 18 wheel on a softly sprung car than it would be if we were to put a lower profile tire on a bigger wheel on a car that was more firmly sprung,

What you say is correct, an Avalon on an 18" wheel with 45 series rubber rides great. But it doesn't change the fact that less sidewall will, all else being equal, negatively impact ride quality,

The key point here, again, is *all else being equal*. When people talk about the impact of the sidewall on ride quality, they are talking about the impact of the tire in isolation, without other measures (tuning, damping, tire compound) to compensate. Changing just this one variable will change the ride. It is true to say that the use of a low profile tire does not automatically mean that the ride will be poor - but if you were to change the profile of the tires on any given car, and nothing else, mthere will absolutely be some impact on the ride in either direction.
I donít dispute what you said. However, I was just pointing out that a car with 45 series tires can ride very well.

Out of curiosity. The Maybach has 35 or 40s and 20 or 21Ē wheels. I assume it rides quite well?
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Old 05-13-19, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
I don’t dispute what you said. However, I was just pointing out that a car with 45 series tires can ride very well.

Out of curiosity. The Maybach has 35 or 40s and 20 or 21” wheels. I assume it rides quite well?
Agreed on the first point, Jill.

And it's a highly sophisticated and of course prohibitively expensive active suspension that make the second possible haha

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Old 05-14-19, 03:31 AM
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This is a good topic. I, myself, feel a bit differently. I believe the vehicles ride has to do with the suspension and its tuning. 100%. Tires don't "ride". However, tires do make a huge difference in transferring noise into the cabin, which is not considered "ride". The fact is, lower profile tires cannot insulate road noise as well as a taller profile tire. Sure, there are some tires that do better than others but all things being equal, the taller tire is quieter.
Tires can make or break what a car sounds like inside when driving down the highway. Cheap, low quality tires can make even a quiet luxury car sound loud and worn out.
All of this has nothing to do with how the car rides. Two things affect ride, okay, maybe three things. Suspension dynamics/tuning, seat comfort and road surface. Tire noise over bot dots is not the issue. I think some are confusing road noise/vibrations with the actual ride of the car. IMO, they are two different things and not related, although, together, they create a luxury experience.
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Old 05-14-19, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill View Post
Out of curiosity. The Maybach has 35 or 40s and 20 or 21Ē wheels. I assume it rides quite well?
I would assume so as well. My wife's Q7 runs 285/40R21 and rides very smoothly.
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