Is Mazda "Skyactiv" a fraud?
04-24-19, 04:33 PM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
04-24-19, 04:41 PM
#32
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As for the "Limited" analogy. I'm talking about the common trim level moniker. Why is it called Limited when it's not limited?
04-24-19, 04:50 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by Sulu
Mazda is a very small (and still independent) automaker with few resources so decided to invest its resources into (small) internal combustion engines rather than electrification.
04-24-19, 05:31 PM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
I guess there's a misunderstanding about SkiActiv-X. It's already available in some markets around the world but there will be some time before it makes its way here. Mazda prioritized where gas is ridiculously expensive. The US has the cheapest prices in the world, perhaps outside of Saudi Arabia. Engines have to go through all the stupid government certifications that are different everywhere which delay release.
As for the "Limited" analogy. I'm talking about the common trim level moniker. Why is it called Limited when it's not limited?
As for the "Limited" analogy. I'm talking about the common trim level moniker. Why is it called Limited when it's not limited?
04-24-19, 06:54 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
How is it false? I don't see anything in the article you posted suggesting so. First, although Ford does have a 2% interest remaining in Mazda, and Fiat joined in to develop the latest Miata/Spyder roadster, Mazda, today, is considered independent by automaker standards, and not tied to any other company. Second, although there is a full-electric Mazda Demio in the works, it is (seemingly) not available to the general public, and only for lease in certain markets, for certain customers.
All I will say is that the article posted by Jill is from 2012, when Mazda was still under Ford's control and had access to Ford's resources.
04-24-19, 07:03 PM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
I have no idea if you are right or wrong. Maybe you were not aware.
https://canada.autonews.com/article/...-entire-lineup
https://canada.autonews.com/article/...-entire-lineup
04-24-19, 07:15 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
I guess there's a misunderstanding about SkiActiv-X. It's already available in some markets around the world but there will be some time before it makes its way here. Mazda prioritized where gas is ridiculously expensive. The US has the cheapest prices in the world, perhaps outside of Saudi Arabia. Engines have to go through all the stupid government certifications that are different everywhere which delay release.
As for the "Limited" analogy. I'm talking about the common trim level moniker. Why is it called Limited when it's not limited?
As for the "Limited" analogy. I'm talking about the common trim level moniker. Why is it called Limited when it's not limited?
After driving a prototype of Mazda's Skyactiv-X engine in a Mazda3 in January last year, we wrote, "If you want to talk numbers, they're understandably fuzzy. The Skyactiv-X tune isn't final yet, so horsepower and torque figures are a moving target." They're no longer fuzzy in Slovakia, where a brochure for the new Mazda3 sells final figures as 181 metric horsepower and 222 Newton-meters, or 178 horsepower
and 164 pound-feet.
We don't know the Slovakian engine's displacement. If that Skyactiv-X is a 2.0-liter, it compares to our 2.0-liter Skyactive-G in the Mazda3 that makes 155 hp and 150 lb-ft, or the tuned Skyactiv-G in the 2019 Miata that makes 181 hp and 151 lb-ft. According to the spec sheet on the Slovakian Mazda site, their 2.0-liter Skyactiv-G in the CX-3 makes 148 hp and 152 lb-ft, and in their Mazda6 makes 162 hp and 155 lb-ft. According to the brochure, those numbers will rise to 164 hp and 157 lb-ft in the coming Mazda3.
and 164 pound-feet.
We don't know the Slovakian engine's displacement. If that Skyactiv-X is a 2.0-liter, it compares to our 2.0-liter Skyactive-G in the Mazda3 that makes 155 hp and 150 lb-ft, or the tuned Skyactiv-G in the 2019 Miata that makes 181 hp and 151 lb-ft. According to the spec sheet on the Slovakian Mazda site, their 2.0-liter Skyactiv-G in the CX-3 makes 148 hp and 152 lb-ft, and in their Mazda6 makes 162 hp and 155 lb-ft. According to the brochure, those numbers will rise to 164 hp and 157 lb-ft in the coming Mazda3.
Compression ignition for gasoline engines is the Holy Grail of powerplant engineers. It promises diesel engine efficiency with gasoline engine (clean) emissions. But the greater flammability and volatility of gasoline compared to diesel makes it difficult to work in a high-compression engine; diesel engine compression ratios of 20:1 or greater is definitely too high. If the SkyActiv-X compression ratio is only 14:1, that matches the compression ratio of the normal SkyActiv-G gasoline engine.
Compression ignition for gasoline engines will be difficult to get right. I can understand that Mazda may have to delay its introduction, to refine it further and get it closer to "perfect".
But let's hope this SkyActiv-X delay for North America does not turn out to be similar to the almost-decade-long delay for the SkyActiv-D.
04-25-19, 06:14 AM
#38
Super Moderator
Bigger engines tend to be slightly higher, but not much. The Ford 7.3L Powerstroke is at 17.5:1, the 6.7L at 16.2:1. Dodge Cummins is 17.2:1, Chevy 6.6L Duramax is 16.8:1.
Out of eleven common engines I checked, only two were even at 18.0:1, and both were exactly that. The Mercedes Bluetec and Ford 6.0L Powerstroke. But that's a high water mark, very far from the average.
The Autoblog article Jill posted got it exactly right.
Last edited by geko29; 04-25-19 at 06:57 AM.
04-25-19, 06:14 AM
#39
This article from January 2018 provides some real-world impressions from a Mazda3 with the Skyactiv-X engine in early development. Is it still a scam if the media is able to test drive the engine while it's still in a developmental stage?
04-25-19, 06:19 AM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
Like JPL said, that's like calling a concept car a scam. Curious, were you also calling the new Supra a "scam" when it was discussed at length with no actual Supras available to purchase? What about when it was delayed?
https://www.auto123.com/en/car-reviews/mazda-skyactiv-x-revolutionary-engine-review/64344/"]This article from January 2018 provides some real-world impressions from a Mazda3 with the Skyactiv-X engine in early development. Is it still a scam if the media is able to test drive the engine while it's still in a developmental stage?
https://www.auto123.com/en/car-reviews/mazda-skyactiv-x-revolutionary-engine-review/64344/"]This article from January 2018 provides some real-world impressions from a Mazda3 with the Skyactiv-X engine in early development. Is it still a scam if the media is able to test drive the engine while it's still in a developmental stage?
04-25-19, 06:37 AM
#41
You could be right about the X never coming to an NA market. The delay of the diesel engine in NA put a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths and I couldn't blame you if you were skeptical about the release. But Mazda letting the media experience the engine in its early stages is good news, I think. Maybe they're doing it just to prove to the skeptics that the engine is real and that it will make it to market.
04-25-19, 12:43 PM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
I'm just relating it to what you describe as a scam. You stated that because Mazda is talking about the -X engine while it's still in development/not available, it's a scam. Toyota revealed their plans for the new Supra while it was still in development/not available. That doesn't make it a scam, right? It's the same thing. The only difference between the two examples is that the media have actually driven Skyactiv-X powered vehicles and written about them. We now even have some predicted hp/tq numbers from Slovakia.
You could be right about the X never coming to an NA market. The delay of the diesel engine in NA put a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths and I couldn't blame you if you were skeptical about the release. But Mazda letting the media experience the engine in its early stages is good news, I think. Maybe they're doing it just to prove to the skeptics that the engine is real and that it will make it to market.
You could be right about the X never coming to an NA market. The delay of the diesel engine in NA put a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths and I couldn't blame you if you were skeptical about the release. But Mazda letting the media experience the engine in its early stages is good news, I think. Maybe they're doing it just to prove to the skeptics that the engine is real and that it will make it to market.
04-26-19, 07:50 AM
#43
It seems like they are fine tuning it since no official info in Europe has been shown, like power/torque and mpg... Just that it will start sales soon.
What we know so far, is a bit disappointing... 15% savings from their regular engine is not going to be same as diesel and also it does not have same torque as diesels, nowhere as close.
I believe it also does not have their mild hybrid system they just announced, likely not to increase the price.
What we know so far, is a bit disappointing... 15% savings from their regular engine is not going to be same as diesel and also it does not have same torque as diesels, nowhere as close.
I believe it also does not have their mild hybrid system they just announced, likely not to increase the price.
04-27-19, 12:49 PM
#44
Dysfunctional Veteran
All I know is Mazda has come almost as far as Kia/Hyundai in the last 15-20 years. I had a 2016 Mazda CX-5 touring with a skyactiv engine. It was a 4 cylinder with V6 power. Really great on fuel. Drive it to from DFW, TX, to San Diego, CA and back, averaged around 37mpg the whole time on the highway.
04-28-19, 04:17 PM
#45
drives cars
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