Bob04

S Class: 1,204
7 Series: 988
CT6: 777
LS500: 457
A8: 261
G90: 159

Second worst March sales for the LS since it was introduced. Even 2016 was better. Only March 2017 was worse, and that was when a new LS was being promised in the fall. The news might even be worse for Audi, but their boards can deal with that.

During the 430 years, Lexus was killing both the S Class and the 7-Series. For instance, in March 2005, the LS430 outsold the 7 Series and S Class COMBINED. You can say the market has changed, but that's not what happened to the LS. The 7 and S numbers are still very comparable to what they were in 2005, being just <200 units difference. (S: 1,384 and 7: 1,110) But the LS numbers fell from 2,537 to 457. That is catastrophic.

While it's true the market has changed, the reality is that big luxury sedan buyers just left Lexus. MB and BMW kept their customers because they gave their customer what they wanted. Lexus decided to give their customers what S Class and BMW owners wanted, and their customers left.

JDR76

There’s been a stop-sale on many of the remaining 2018 LS500s for the past several weeks.

Bob04

Nothing is stopping 2019 sales. 2018s should have been off the lot months ago for a car that was just introduced in 2018.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

they're still selling 2018's in april of 2019?

mmarshall

Does not surprise me at all. I expected it. The loss of the V8 and the more-sport-oriented character just doesn't cut it on an LS.

Absolutely. The 430 was the best LS ever produced...and its buyers knew it.

That's what happens when a company forgets its bread and butter. The same thing, to an extent, happened at Cadillac and Lincoln....for a while, they forgot the traditional big-sedan buyers in their designs.

Toys4RJill

I said this before. I could see Lexus cancelling the LS. Its a nice car, but its a mistake. Even if Lexus did it differently, it would flop too IMO. I think if they did a hatch LS it would of been a success, or transfer the LS into a cross over type model.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

the current LS is a very luxurious vehicle, but its combination of 'ingredients' just isn't enough to make it desirable by enough buyers who can afford one.

the original ls and even subsequent ls models were often bought by 'radical' luxury buyers, those who didn't want a mercedes, bmw, or audi, they wanted something different. well guess who's getting that 'different' maret now? yup, tesla! the ls was also known for being roomy, supremely quiet and comfortable, conservatively styled, and extremely reliable. today it's not considered that roomy and certainly isn't conservatively styled, so in short, i think a lot of its previous market are just looking elsewhere and it's no longer 'special' enough for new conquest buyers. it's just 'stuck' with a small number of buyers who either really like its combination of attributes, or always wanted a lexus, etc. another thing that's happened is 'lesser' vehicle have gotten spectacularly better than in decades past so a luxury vehicle REALLY has to stand out in some way. finally, the cuv/suv craze has certainly hurt the luxury and non-luxury sedan market so perhaps no matter what lexus did it wouldn't have mattered that much.

but here i must agree with mmarshall, they should have kept is more conservatively styled, and they should have offered a V8 still, for now.

now i think they'll have to bring out an electric model, or some other 'major' shift, to make ls sell in decent numbers again.

Vladi

Sales numbers could never be the same as 2005 simply because LS is no more super value flagship. It's priced really tight to Germans even if it offers more standard features as usual. But nail in the coffin was the last gen with the lifecycle of over 10 years. That killed LS no matter what, current LS could have been the best car ever made and it would still sell in miserable numbers. Basically customers have left somewhere else and it will take Lexus two generations to improve the numbers. Don't know what happened inside Lexus or where was the hold up but someone got really chill and confident up there. They've screwed up whole RWD lineup, they can't move a single RWD vehicle anymore and their solution is to go and cancel models while other manufacturers are introducing more and more models instead. LS and LC are matter of pride and they will not go anywhere but LS/RC will have one more attempt and if it doesn't work they will most likely get chopped as well. Lexus is on a point of no return to become another Acura and it will be hell of a fight to come back at RWD market and be competitive. Within five years Audi will close the gap in annual sales.

mbarron37

Agreed. Current LS does not have a strong following for one reason or another. Yes, sedan sales are in the toilet, but you have thought there would have been pent up demand since the prior gen LS was so long in the tooth.

SW17LS

They're not going to cancel the LS.

What really hurts the LS is the incredible lease deals available on the S450 and the 740.

MattyG

One of the more knowledgeable LS posters [DedBirdDog] posted something on either the 4LS or 5LS forum, can't recall exactly - but he has MMR auction data that dealers use. He's indicated that LFS recently ran a batch of low mileage 2018 LS 500 vehicles through the auction circuit. These were cars with under 100 miles, so basically new. Whatever that means, it's not a good sign on the face of it.

The issue with the LS is complex, because despite being a car that basically comes loaded with features even in its most basic trim: and is about $15K-$25K lower in pricing to the German brands, you still see sagging sales. The S class and the 7 are not really brand new vehicles because they are several years old at this point. BMW will intro its next 7 in 2020 with that horrendous buck tooth grill and possibly a lack of a V8/V12 option. The S class will, of course, outdo itself when it too brings a new model in 2021.

The one thing that is really interesting is that Audi's brand new technology packed A8 is doing very poorly here. It sold even less than the LS 500 last month. But Audi's cross platform sharing allows it to keep the A8 around. It's never sold really well, but because of the subsidized sales from the A4/A5/A6 and the Q5/Q7, Audi's not too worried - not to mention the Bentley Bentayga and Lamborghini Urus.

Where Lexus could do better is have something ready to go in the pipeline earlier and that means there should have been a mid-sized GA-L RWD crossover/SUV first and then a full sizer next or concurrent to the LS 500. What was achieved by intro-ing a LC 500 which has next to no sales #s, and a slow selling LS flagship?

Toys4RJill

This is interesting. The second year numbers are bad, where does it go in year 3?

The passion and emotional attachment you have for the LS and/or the Lexus brand does not allow you to see things from a distance. The LS500 is a flop. Doesn't mean its no good or a bad car. It means it has no audience/buyer. Sometimes good movies flop. Sometimes good cars flop.

SW17LS

I dont care for the new LS at all. I like the way it looks, but I would never buy one. Did Lexus make a mistake by changing the nature of the LS? I would agree that they did.

As I said before, Lexus is not going to cancel the LS. The LS is the original Lexus, its a very important vehicle for Lexus. They'll address some of the things people find unattractive at the next mid-cycle refresh.

It doesn't have "no audience or buyer" it just has a limited audience. Its still the #3 car in the segment. Where is all the clamor for Audi to cancel the A8? The LS is a "sales disaster" according to you, but they still sold twice as many as the all new A8. Its all relative.

MattyG

IMO it has "just enough" of an audience, but Lexus could never get rid of the LS. It is the defining benchmark of what defined Lexus in the US as an image vehicle. Toyota could have tried to sell Amercian luxury car buyers a $35K Toyota Celsior in 1990 and that would have been a true sales flop.

Very true. The A8 has so much tech in it that there isn't going to be much of a fuss about it being a slow seller.

It was never a great seller for Audi to start with but it always had the top spot in the Audi sedan lineup and understated quiet competence. Lexus went too radical here with styling and interior space. Audi has the jump on digital dash display real estate and even stuff like the collision sensing systems. Lexus got caught trying to be sporty and edgy.

Toys4RJill

I doubt the new generation would care if the LS were to go. I do not think it will be cancelled completely, I think eventually it will morph into a UX style vehicle that is not really an SUV and not really a hatch. Same thing will happen with Avalon.