Toys4RJill

Truthfully, the D.C. Auto Show is pretty much meaningless. Without the internet, we would never ever discuss it and it would never show up in National Magazines or Newspapers. I would never ever of known it was even going on. Detroit, New York, I guess L.A. and the overseas Frankfurt or Geneva auto shows are important and relevant.

Where there any significant automobile launches at the D.C. show this year?


So how do we know that BMW did not go to Toyota and say "here is our engine design, please engineer the reliability portion"?

lectric74

It is a hard top BMW Z4 chassis and the engine is a basic BMW six that they use in plenty of other machines including the Z4. It is more than just BMW engine reliability I'm talking about, they are heavily over engineered and not reliable. Their electronics are subpar, quality control is non-existant. BMW is great if you only lease, and trade in once the lease/factory warranty are up. The power levels aren't even higher than the MKIV, 20 years later, that's sad and inexcusable for such an iconic name.

That's certainly one way to look at it, but seeing how much is involved to fix even simple things is what turned me off. Power window repairs are very common, alternators take hours of book, and real world time, and the electronics fail far too quickly. Even with practice, they require tons of specialized tools and knowledge, and they don't get easier. Even the proper special tools don't always work correctly, as I learned after replacing timing guides on an X5 4.4. The tool to align the cams didn't line up with the other tools to verify proper advance, and still got check engine lights until I ignored everything BMW stated and advanced a single cam timing cog. You can definitely make money fixing them, but it is a ton more work and doesn't always pay well since many operations, even with experience, go well over book hours. That same X5 needed an alternator replacement, that involves tearing the entire front end, radiators and AC condenser, just to be able to replace it, book time 10 hours.

Toys4RJill

So how do you know if Toyota had or did not have a part in bettering the reliability for the new Supra and Z4? I find it hard to believe that Toyota just signed off on a Supra without protecting their brand.

lectric74

It's certainly possible, but for the money I'll take a tried and true LC500, with more horsepower and a known reputation for reliability, over anything built by BMW. This isn't built by Toyota, it isn't developed by Toyota in any traditional sense, and it's unlikely that Toyota could have improved the BMW six enough to maintain the legendary reliability without totally redesigning the engine. The engine isn't changed, and parts all interchange between other models and years, that doesn't bode well for the idea of Toyota improving the reliability.

tex2670

Are there ever? There's never any significant launches in Philly.

Toys4RJill

I have no idea.

Toys4RJill

All I can say is, Toyota has had joint partnerships in the past, Yamaha helped make the V10 from the LFA. Toyota and General Motors had a joint partnership for 26 years. There is the Toyota/Subaru joint venture.. And Toyota and Mazda have something going with their plant in the US. I would be shocked if Toyota would let their reliability methods down for this Supra. Apparently. Toyota and BMW have been developing engines as well as lithium ion batteries together. Your POV has been acknowledged.

Johnhav430

Lately we seem to be left out, but I did attend the E90 launch in 2005, if memory serves me at the Academy of Natural Sciences. Then the launch of the 5th gen 7 series was in Manayunk. The venue escapes me, but when I say launch, the vehicle is under a cover, and when people are good and drunk and had their fill of fancy hors d'oeuvres, they pull it off and everyone oohs and ahs. Ditto with the 991 and 981. Apparently I was snubbed for the 718, and have heard nothing on the 992.

But we in Phila. are now left out for the driving events and usually have to drive up to East Rutherford or Englishtown. Even Lexus was at Citi Field. Maybe we can get the Olympics or amazon hq III seeing as we have an awesome infrastruture to support those events.

plex

iTrader: (11)

LC500 is double the cost of the MKV though. The MKIV Supra became popular because it was able to be modified to double and triple the factory horsepower on stock block and transmissions (6MT), I'm sure the B58 will be modded beyond what it has been so far in other chassis. I read that some tuners have pushed past 700 rwhp. While I'm no fan of the partnership with BMW, Toyota was involved and did identify some components that needed work that even surprised BMW supposedly, time will tell if that's true. The MKIV was an anomaly in my opinion while it was fast for the time it came out the aftermarket is what kept it popular with pushing the limits. I see this new MKV as a good opportunity for the aftermarket to push the limits yet again. I think with a M/T option in 2nd year and beyond it will be a decent option as most of the bugs would have been worked out and the aftermarket will have tons of options.

tex2670

Car shows; we are talking about car shows--not private events.

And you are telling me those events at the ANS and in Manayunk were US debuts??? C'mon.

mmarshall

I'll discuss the D.C. show as long as I go to it....been doing it for 35 years. People are free to comment/not comment (or to ask questions about it) as they see fit.

Toys4RJill

Absolutely.

mmarshall

Final Show Summary


Well, after three days off and on at the show (and as much time each day as my not-so-young legs and back would allow me), I can write a reasonable summary. There were some good features at the show, but, in general, I found it very lacking and disappointing compared to past D.C. shows. First, the subway show-entrance was blocked off every day of the show, so we all had to walk an extra two blocks (on my weak knee) down to the front entrance....the guards said it was because they couldn't get a baggage-inspection room near the entrance (all incoming bags at the show are checked for security). Volvo, which had a display there, did not being the big S90 sedan at all, and Kia, which also had a display, did not bring the Cadenza or K900 (Kia did redeem themselves by having two new tellurides there, one out on the floor and unlocked so we could sit in it). Ford had the 2020 Explorer and Escape, but the Explorer was up on a stage, roped off, and the Escape, while out on the floor, was locked. Chevy brought the Traverse and had several versions on the floor, but, as I had predicted, people were all but ignoring them....they could see that the classic name clearly did not match the vehicle's actual design. Ford did not bring the competing 2020 Bronco as I had hoped.....its introduction is now being pushed back as a 2021 model, probably at the next L.A. or Detroit show. The decision by Ford and GM to drop many or most of their sedans has been well-discussed here in Car Chat...I won't re-hash it here. Only one outside test-drive circuit was set up this year (VW)...and that was only on opening day (I test-drove an Atlas, and was quite pleased with it, at least in the city). Toyota's test-drive circuit, which always shows up, did not make it this year, and neither did Subaru, Mazda, or Kia, which, on alternating days, share the street-space Toyota doesn't use. Ford, at least, continued the $50 Mastercard sign-ups for dealer test-drives....last year, in addition, they also had a $10 card, at the show, for a Ford test-drive there, at the show. I signed up for the $50 card again myself, and also signed up our Condo Maintenance Man, who is looking for a new F-150 or Silverado to replace his old (and worn-out) Silverado....he could use a nice test-drive, and just might (?) take one home. I also signed up for the Lincoln $75 test-drive offer......which is not a gift-card, but a $75 donation, in your name to a charity of your choice (from a list). I plan to use it for another MKZ test-drive...fortunately, unlike GM with the Lacrosse and Impala, the Lincoln folks said they know of no plans to drop the MKZ, and it will apparently remain in production for awhile.

Cadillac, Mercedes, BMW, Mini, and Smart also stayed away from the show. Cadillac says it was because they only had a budget this year for the 5 most important shows....and, in their view, Washington is considered #6. I had particularly wanted to see the new Cadillac CT5 and CT4 sedans, and, eventually, a new Mini for my brother's girl friend.

It wasn't all gloom and doom at the show, though....there were some nice moments as well. As usual, I was able to play the Toyota and Nissan Trivia game-shows they had on the floor, and, of course, won several prizes from answering auto-questions correctly.....I have no need or desire to keep the gifts, and I like to give them to the kiddies there next to me. It is no nice to see their dear little faces light up when I hand it to them and say "Merry Christmas". Toyota showed off the new Supra,up on a turntable, though it didn't attract as large a crowd as I thought it would. Ford had the dark green Bullitt Mustang (inspired by the Steve McQueen movie), on the floor, unlocked...it drew a fair number of onlookers. Subaru, though lacking the usual test-drive loop, had an excellent inside display, with three versions of the new Ascent, on the floor, unlocked. As usual, I got to demonstrate the Mazda Miata's quick-flick top up and down...they always draws some interest, as it is arguably the simplest-operating manual top in the business. The D.C. Metro subway system, each time, to and from the show, ran and operated like a sewing machine, as did the commuter-buses from the station to my condo-development....usually, the system has more snags, breakdowns, and problems than they can handle.

I did get a request, some time ago, to review the next Audi A8. They did have one at the show, on a stage but unlocked, so I was able to sit inside it and examine it. As typical for Audi, first-rate interior materials and fit/finish, As usual, in the Audi tradition, it was conservatively-styled (I like the styling theme myself)) though it was less Audi-like, in its general interior decor and layout, than in the past.

I also noticed what I consider a positive trend in the industry's latest models. I have complained about (IMO) overly-stiff seat cushions numerous times in the past...particularly in lower-line Japanese and Korean-designed vehicles, and in the rear seat of the Ford Escape. Except for a few sport-oriented vehicles like the Regal GS, VW GTI, (and the Alfa Romeo Stelvio, and Giulia, which were absolutely hopeless for a person my size, and apparently designed for beanpoles), most of the seats I sampled, across the board, were noticeably softer and more cushioned in the latest designs, particularly in the side bolsters. I was reasonably comfortable in just about all of the drivers' seats but the most sport-oriented ones.....the softest and IMO, the most comfortable, were in the (no surprise) 2019 Buick Lacrosse and 2019 Lincoln MKZ....even more so than in the Lincoln Continental itself.

So, now to take a couple of days off and, yes, rest some. I'll do a light swim tomorrow morning at the indoor Olympic-size pool I regularly use at the County Recreation Center for my daily exercise.


And, as Always.............Happy Vehicle-Shopping.

MM

mmarshall

.....and here was the most Macho, He-Man vehicle at the show, hands-down.....the VW Beetle Convertible (J/K)