Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

Lexus: Still a luxury brand...or has it become a premium brand?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 03-07-19, 07:20 AM
  #61  
arentz07
drives cars
Forum Moderator
 
arentz07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: GA
Posts: 8,588
Received 3,894 Likes on 1,967 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mbarron37


Thats comical. If anything, Lexus took a step back with the current LS. IMO, it is less refined and certainly doesn’t scream luxury. Sporty yes, luxurious, not so much.

Its all about sales. If the new version attract more customers to the LS line then that’s a win. If they alienate old school LS owners and don’t pick up enough new customers to the LS line, then not so good.
I think the absence of the V-8 is prompting some exaggerated reactions from 8-cylinder fans. If the interior of the LS isn't luxury then well I suppose the 7-series isn't a luxury car either.
arentz07 is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 07:45 AM
  #62  
situman
Pole Position
 
situman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 3,465
Received 166 Likes on 115 Posts
Default

To be honest, Lexus will never reach tier 1 or be on equal footing in terms of prestige and cache with MB and BMW. For them to reach that level, they must absolutely build and design everything in house. As things are right now, the most they will reach is Audi level. Outside of the 3.5tt and 2.0t, all the engines are from the Toyota parts bin and all the platforms are modified Toyota platforms.
situman is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 08:45 AM
  #63  
Johnhav430
Lexus Fanatic
 
Johnhav430's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: PA
Posts: 8,491
Received 372 Likes on 346 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by situman
To be honest, Lexus will never reach tier 1 or be on equal footing in terms of prestige and cache with MB and BMW. For them to reach that level, they must absolutely build and design everything in house. As things are right now, the most they will reach is Audi level. Outside of the 3.5tt and 2.0t, all the engines are from the Toyota parts bin and all the platforms are modified Toyota platforms.
Well said. I think we are in agreement and you will get this.

I have said that on a 2006 LS430, it is very disappointing to have cheap Corolla power window switches. To which people will respond, there is nothing cheap about them and my LS430 had the best power window switches I have ever experienced.

This is exactly what you refer to as the Toyota parts bin.

I will say, Lexus cheaped out in that wire running to the rain sensor on the 2006 LS430. Germans conceal things like that. And there will be a response that there's no wire running from the rain sensor in my LS430 and never has been (there is look closely).

It probably is true to a lesser extent today. But before, with German cars, you could choose a stripped, lesser model, and get the underpinnings of a more expensive car. Example, buy a 2007 BMW 328i, manual with sport package, that's it. You were in the $34k list price range, but got all the hardware such as doors, blah blah blah window switches, etc., of a $49k 335i. Opposite of the LS430 v. Corolla. What you won't get is genuine leather on the inside door panels, with the above 328i stripper. Heck, you didn't even get that on a 2006 LS430 that listed for $65k. Why? Because Lexus doesn't feel anyone would notice. And for the most part, it's true. But, it prevents them from membership in the top tier luxury class as well.
Johnhav430 is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 09:02 AM
  #64  
-J-P-L-
Lexus Fanatic
 
-J-P-L-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 7,864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Och
Hilarious, Lexus is nowhere near tier 1. If anything, Lexus became a hopeless brand.
They are more upscale than ever. A $105,000+ LS500 isn't tier 1? What are you basing this opinion on?

Mercedes has cheapened their lineup with cars like the A-Class. Are they no longer tier 1?
-J-P-L- is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 09:58 AM
  #65  
Toys4RJill
Lexus Fanatic
 
Toys4RJill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON/NY
Posts: 31,442
Received 66 Likes on 57 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by -J-P-L-
They are more upscale than ever. A $105,000+ LS500 isn't tier 1? What are you basing this opinion on?

Mercedes has cheapened their lineup with cars like the A-Class. Are they no longer tier 1?
The whole tier 1 crap is lame. They all have high end as well as lower end. Interesting the lowest starting price to possibly get into a Lexus IS lower than the lowest possibly entry of a Lincoln.
Toys4RJill is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 10:11 AM
  #66  
Johnhav430
Lexus Fanatic
 
Johnhav430's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: PA
Posts: 8,491
Received 372 Likes on 346 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by -J-P-L-
They are more upscale than ever. A $105,000+ LS500 isn't tier 1? What are you basing this opinion on?

Mercedes has cheapened their lineup with cars like the A-Class. Are they no longer tier 1?
Have you driven a LS500? That would answer some of what you are asking.
Johnhav430 is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 11:21 AM
  #67  
situman
Pole Position
 
situman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 3,465
Received 166 Likes on 115 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by -J-P-L-
They are more upscale than ever. A $105,000+ LS500 isn't tier 1? What are you basing this opinion on?

Mercedes has cheapened their lineup with cars like the A-Class. Are they no longer tier 1?
Well...Lexus was selling a $400k supercar at one point. So?
situman is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 12:55 PM
  #68  
-J-P-L-
Lexus Fanatic
 
-J-P-L-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 7,864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by situman
Well...Lexus was selling a $400k supercar at one point. So?
Exactly my point.
-J-P-L- is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 12:58 PM
  #69  
AJT123
Lexus Champion
 
AJT123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 12,657
Received 228 Likes on 191 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Johnhav430
Well said. I think we are in agreement and you will get this.

I have said that on a 2006 LS430, it is very disappointing to have cheap Corolla power window switches. To which people will respond, there is nothing cheap about them and my LS430 had the best power window switches I have ever experienced.
My god, you and those window switches, lol. I don't know what you want them to be, and the actual switches themselves may be Toyota, but they're encased in absolutely beautiful Yamaha wood, every 430 used wood from the same tree so it would match. That's hardly like a Corolla.

Originally Posted by Johnhav430
I will say, Lexus cheaped out in that wire running to the rain sensor on the 2006 LS430. Germans conceal things like that. And there will be a response that there's no wire running from the rain sensor in my LS430 and never has been (there is look closely).
I will look, but I've never ever noticed anything like that. IMO there's literally not one cheap thing in a 430, the interiors of those were/are amazing. And Lexus sweat the details. I picked up some friends from the airport and then drove back here in the sorta heavy rain rain, they were like, "Why don't you have to use your wipers much, did you RainX it?" No, it's a water repellant windshield (and the front 2 windows). They aren't "car people" and were shocked that they were riding in a 15 year old car. And they couldn't stop gushing about how smooth it is.

Originally Posted by Johnhav430
It probably is true to a lesser extent today. But before, with German cars, you could choose a stripped, lesser model, and get the underpinnings of a more expensive car. Example, buy a 2007 BMW 328i, manual with sport package, that's it. You were in the $34k list price range, but got all the hardware such as doors, blah blah blah window switches, etc., of a $49k 335i. Opposite of the LS430 v. Corolla. What you won't get is genuine leather on the inside door panels, with the above 328i stripper. Heck, you didn't even get that on a 2006 LS430 that listed for $65k. Why? Because Lexus doesn't feel anyone would notice. And for the most part, it's true. But, it prevents them from membership in the top tier luxury class as well.
This may be true for cheaper Lexus models but an LSs underpinnings are serious, just as good as a German flagship's. It has some serious hardware to get the job done. LS could cruise at autobahn speeds all day long with any S Class or 7 series. 430 was the pinnacle of the overbuilt Lexus era, it definitely shows.


AJT123 is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 01:08 PM
  #70  
Johnhav430
Lexus Fanatic
 
Johnhav430's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: PA
Posts: 8,491
Received 372 Likes on 346 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by AJT123
This may be true for cheaper Lexus models but an LSs underpinnings are serious, just as good as a German flagship's. It has some serious hardware to get the job done. LS could cruise at autobahn speeds all day long with any S Class or 7 series. 430 was the pinnacle of the overbuilt Lexus era, it definitely shows.
The car mags used to say you get a base 328i, manual, with sport package, and you have one **** of a car for $34,xxx (even a GTI today doesn't really give you that stuff). Sport pkg on a 328 bumped the rims up by 1" and staggered the tires for around $1400 and sport seats with large side bolsters came along (I noticed even BMW now put this stuff into a package that costs a lot more, not a simple $1400 line item). That was the seriousness that German cars had at least in 2007, before they started selling FWD based vehicles here in the USA (think they always did in Canada). Well, I've probably never gotten beyond 90 mph in my LS430, but I don't think it could hang with a S or 7. I'm not just talking about the limiter. Those cars as big as they are have .82g skidpad numbers, just part of their dna.

I agree with those who say Lexus will never, ever, ever, be in the category of BMW and Mercedes Benz. And if they ever did get into that category? I would buy that Lexus if I could afford it.

edit just thought of this, isn't it true that generally speaking, Lexus vehicles drive slowly on the road? Like Cadillac? Jmo, demographic of the drivers, they tend to be older. I've looked in the lounge before at Lexus dealerships. this would likely be a major factor with the products that Lexus puts out.

Last edited by Johnhav430; 03-07-19 at 01:14 PM.
Johnhav430 is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 01:45 PM
  #71  
AJT123
Lexus Champion
 
AJT123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 12,657
Received 228 Likes on 191 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Johnhav430
Well, I've probably never gotten beyond 90 mph in my LS430, but I don't think it could hang with a S or 7. I'm not just talking about the limiter. Those cars as big as they are have .82g skidpad numbers, just part of their dna.
I've driven mine 125MPH for a 4 hour stretch before. Trust me, it can hang. I've driven/been in plenty of S-Classes and 7 Series. Skidpad numbers have nothing to do with directional stability at high speed. The car had the lowest drag of any production car at the time, trust me, LS430 swallows up miles at very very high speeds with the best of them.

LS430 was definitely an older demographic and it's sad that probably 90% of them have never gone beyond 90MPH, because the car feels better the faster you go, just like those German cars.

Here's an old Top Gear video with the guy driving a 98-00 LS 150MPH like it was nothing; go right to the 3 minute mark for that part.

AJT123 is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 01:48 PM
  #72  
RNM GS3
Lexus Test Driver
 
RNM GS3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 7,259
Received 70 Likes on 52 Posts
Default

One brand I forgot is Porsche.

To me they are Tier 1 even though they don’t have a full lineup to go head to head with MB and BMW.
They have even more prestige than MB and BMW.

Way too many great cars/SUVs from the Germans- Lexus and the Japanese brands are way too behind at this point.
As of now Lexus is going further down rather than up.
Just look at the myriad of options in terms of various models, engines, customization, performance trims that Germans offer. It is truly incredible.
RNM GS3 is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 02:08 PM
  #73  
spwolf
Lexus Champion
 
spwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,926
Received 161 Likes on 119 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by RNM GS3
One brand I forgot is Porsche.

To me they are Tier 1 even though they don’t have a full lineup to go head to head with MB and BMW.
They have even more prestige than MB and BMW.

Way too many great cars/SUVs from the Germans- Lexus and the Japanese brands are way too behind at this point.
As of now Lexus is going further down rather than up.
Just look at the myriad of options in terms of various models, engines, customization, performance trims that Germans offer. It is truly incredible.
Nobody seriously considers MB and BMW as same tier when it comes to being luxury brands. BMWs are sporty sure, but luxurious? I mean they never did anything that can match LC interior, and I doubt they will.

All 3 germans have really went down low with various crappy base interior FWD models, so it is pretty funny that you think Lexus is going further down.
spwolf is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 02:10 PM
  #74  
Toys4RJill
Lexus Fanatic
 
Toys4RJill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON/NY
Posts: 31,442
Received 66 Likes on 57 Posts
Default

Lol. MB, BMW and. Tiers. Seems like nothing to do with Lexus.

Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-07-19 at 02:25 PM.
Toys4RJill is offline  
Old 03-07-19, 02:28 PM
  #75  
Johnhav430
Lexus Fanatic
 
Johnhav430's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: PA
Posts: 8,491
Received 372 Likes on 346 Posts
Default

If a Lexus driver thinks their vehicle is top tier luxury, does it even matter? Again this is the scene out of American Psycho where they're comparing business cards. It's funny how the writers made up fonts and colors, pretty clever.
Johnhav430 is offline  


Quick Reply: Lexus: Still a luxury brand...or has it become a premium brand?



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:15 AM.