Lexus: Still a luxury brand...or has it become a premium brand?
03-06-19, 08:22 PM
#46
Lexus Fanatic
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No question Lexus is still legitimately a luxury brand. More now than ever before.
A "luxury" brand is a fluid label and depends who you ask. There's also the tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 argument.
MB, BMW, Audi, and Lexus are tier 1.
Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, Lincoln, Volvo, Genesis, Jaguar, and others are tier 2 or 3 but are still luxury brands.
"Premium" usually refers to a brand such as Buick or I would say higher end models from the mainstream brands. They are certainly premium. Avalon, Cadenza, etc. are examples of premium models. Any top trim 3-row crossover is premium ($45-$55K from mainstream brands).
A "luxury" brand is a fluid label and depends who you ask. There's also the tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 argument.
MB, BMW, Audi, and Lexus are tier 1.
Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, Lincoln, Volvo, Genesis, Jaguar, and others are tier 2 or 3 but are still luxury brands.
"Premium" usually refers to a brand such as Buick or I would say higher end models from the mainstream brands. They are certainly premium. Avalon, Cadenza, etc. are examples of premium models. Any top trim 3-row crossover is premium ($45-$55K from mainstream brands).
03-06-19, 08:24 PM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
No question Lexus is still legitimately a luxury brand. More now than ever before.
A "luxury" brand is a fluid label and depends who you ask. There's also the tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 argument.
MB, BMW, Audi, and Lexus are tier 1.
Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, Lincoln, Volvo, Genesis, Jaguar, and others are tier 2 or 3 but are still luxury brands.
"Premium" usually refers to a brand such as Buick or I would say higher end models from the mainstream brands. They are certainly premium. Avalon, Cadenza, etc. are examples of premium models. Any top trim 3-row crossover is premium ($45-$55K from mainstream brands).
A "luxury" brand is a fluid label and depends who you ask. There's also the tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 argument.
MB, BMW, Audi, and Lexus are tier 1.
Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, Lincoln, Volvo, Genesis, Jaguar, and others are tier 2 or 3 but are still luxury brands.
"Premium" usually refers to a brand such as Buick or I would say higher end models from the mainstream brands. They are certainly premium. Avalon, Cadenza, etc. are examples of premium models. Any top trim 3-row crossover is premium ($45-$55K from mainstream brands).
03-06-19, 08:27 PM
#48
No question Lexus is still legitimately a luxury brand. More now than ever before.
A "luxury" brand is a fluid label and depends who you ask. There's also the tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 argument.
MB, BMW, Audi, and Lexus are tier 1.
Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, Lincoln, Volvo, Genesis, Jaguar, and others are tier 2 or 3 but are still luxury brands.
"Premium" usually refers to a brand such as Buick or I would say higher end models from the mainstream brands. They are certainly premium. Avalon, Cadenza, etc. are examples of premium models. Any top trim 3-row crossover is premium ($45-$55K from mainstream brands).
A "luxury" brand is a fluid label and depends who you ask. There's also the tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 argument.
MB, BMW, Audi, and Lexus are tier 1.
Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, Lincoln, Volvo, Genesis, Jaguar, and others are tier 2 or 3 but are still luxury brands.
"Premium" usually refers to a brand such as Buick or I would say higher end models from the mainstream brands. They are certainly premium. Avalon, Cadenza, etc. are examples of premium models. Any top trim 3-row crossover is premium ($45-$55K from mainstream brands).
03-06-19, 08:37 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
Just because a brand has some models that can be cross shopped well doesn't mean the brand is on equal footing, I don't see an argument that Lincoln is on the same level as Lexus...and certainly not Mercedes. Lincoln doesn't even have a dealership network, they are all sold out of Ford dealers, service linked with Ford, etc.
The Navigator is an excellent product, but its the only excellent product Lincoln sells currently.
The Navigator is an excellent product, but its the only excellent product Lincoln sells currently.
03-06-19, 08:40 PM
#50
Lexus Champion
However it would be weird to see Lexus go into Toyota dealerships. Big time.
03-06-19, 08:43 PM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
https://driving.ca/lincoln/auto-news...rate-from-ford
03-06-19, 08:58 PM
#53
Lexus Champion
I think the idea their are no dealers is wrong.
https://driving.ca/lincoln/auto-news...rate-from-ford
Per a previous post of yours on this thread I strongly disagree with your opinion that Lincoln is in the same class of luxury car as a Mercedes, btw. Lincoln is a joke, to me at least. The Navi is impressive but it still doesn't have the status/bling/cachet the Escalade does, even though it's almost brand new versus the old Escalade. For every Navigator I see, I see about 30 Escalades, no exaggeration. This city is huge with the expensive BOF SUVs, it is very obvious what the wealthy are spending their money on, are the 80-100k trucks.
I can't even name one Lincoln model other than the Conti and Navi. I've seen a few Contis around here, they do look sharp at least.
03-06-19, 09:08 PM
#54
I think all this is a bit like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Yeah, I think Lexus builds excellent cars with lovely interiors and legendary reliability. And they are expensive.
The fact that the rugged reliability foundation comes from the world-class Toyota engineers is a plus, not a minus. Would you rather have a lovely car that has lots of quirks? I'm sure we can think of cars in that category. Does quirkiness equate luxury? Certainly not in my view.
I can guarantee you that when I drive through the parking lot of the private golf course here in upscale Lake Oswego you see a lot of Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus. A LOT of Lexus.
Yeah, I think Lexus builds excellent cars with lovely interiors and legendary reliability. And they are expensive.
The fact that the rugged reliability foundation comes from the world-class Toyota engineers is a plus, not a minus. Would you rather have a lovely car that has lots of quirks? I'm sure we can think of cars in that category. Does quirkiness equate luxury? Certainly not in my view.
I can guarantee you that when I drive through the parking lot of the private golf course here in upscale Lake Oswego you see a lot of Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus. A LOT of Lexus.
03-06-19, 09:26 PM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Oh, good for them then. 30 dealers isn't a lot though for the country.
Per a previous post of yours on this thread I strongly disagree with your opinion that Lincoln is in the same class of luxury car as a Mercedes, btw. Lincoln is a joke, to me at least. The Navi is impressive but it still doesn't have the status/bling/cachet the Escalade does, even though it's almost brand new versus the old Escalade. For every Navigator I see, I see about 30 Escalades, no exaggeration. This city is huge with the expensive BOF SUVs, it is very obvious what the wealthy are spending their money on, are the 80-100k trucks.
I can't even name one Lincoln model other than the Conti and Navi. I've seen a few Contis around here, they do look sharp at least.
Per a previous post of yours on this thread I strongly disagree with your opinion that Lincoln is in the same class of luxury car as a Mercedes, btw. Lincoln is a joke, to me at least. The Navi is impressive but it still doesn't have the status/bling/cachet the Escalade does, even though it's almost brand new versus the old Escalade. For every Navigator I see, I see about 30 Escalades, no exaggeration. This city is huge with the expensive BOF SUVs, it is very obvious what the wealthy are spending their money on, are the 80-100k trucks.
I can't even name one Lincoln model other than the Conti and Navi. I've seen a few Contis around here, they do look sharp at least.
I just looked up the new Nautalus, I was surprised to discover their are two different I4 or V6 options, both are turbo charged, their are 11 different color choices, 5 different interior color choices, and 5 different wheel choices ranging from 18" to 21". To me, that is pretty appealing.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-06-19 at 09:32 PM.
03-06-19, 09:33 PM
#56
Lexus Champion
IMO. I think Lincoln has finally figured out their brand. They are doing this quiet luxury theme. They have finally figured out their front end style. Their most current marketing is pretty good IMO or at least I am attracted to it. So, everyone is different I guess. I for sure think the current Lincoln offerings from the brand is definitely luxury. I think the Continental is by far the best looking large sedan on the market right now. I also think the idea of reserve, or black label, bridge if weir, the chalet or yacht themes are quite appealing and very refreshing.
I just looked up the new Nautalus, I was surprised to discover their are two different I4 or V6 options, both are turbo charged, their are 11 different color choices, 5 different interior color choices, and 5 different wheel choices ranging from 18" to 21". To me, that is pretty appealing.
03-06-19, 09:37 PM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
We are not the biggest Ford fans. But we can definitely find things appealing with Lincoln.
03-06-19, 11:30 PM
#58
Lexus Champion
I meant to add this earlier--Lexus service is phenomenal. I took our 350 in for a recall and they returned it with the tank full--that's the epitome of good customer service.
I know about the brake light recall recall with the early LS400s where they did that, filled the tanks, but figured that was just for then.
I never go to Lexus anymore bc my cars are old and dealer is a huge ripoff, but yes the service is out of this world.
That goes a long way in establishing Lexus as a tier 1 brand.
I know about the brake light recall recall with the early LS400s where they did that, filled the tanks, but figured that was just for then.
I never go to Lexus anymore bc my cars are old and dealer is a huge ripoff, but yes the service is out of this world.
That goes a long way in establishing Lexus as a tier 1 brand.
03-07-19, 03:13 AM
#59
LS460 and the LS460L, that was no longer the case. Even with the all new LS500, IMHO that car just doesn't present as a peer to what is offered as the S Class, 7 Series and A8.
So while the experience of a Lexus dealer and service has IMPROVED since 1998, the dealers are much grander for instance...the product has notably fallen behind those "luxury" brands.
In order to get back into that realm I think they need to really start addressing that upper end of their lineup. $100,000 is the new $80,000. Lexus does not play in that over $100,000 segment at all.
So while the experience of a Lexus dealer and service has IMPROVED since 1998, the dealers are much grander for instance...the product has notably fallen behind those "luxury" brands.
In order to get back into that realm I think they need to really start addressing that upper end of their lineup. $100,000 is the new $80,000. Lexus does not play in that over $100,000 segment at all.
Reality is that LS500 and LS500h sell at considerably higher prices than old LS, they look unique, luxurious and special. Overall Lexus average prices are going north every year, while their competition is going south.
Personally, new LS is finally a real luxury flagship. 2007 model was certainly premium, but that is about it... it was affordable premium barge. 2019 LS is unique, interesting car with some exquisite details found only in luxury brands.
In any case, LS and LC are pretty unique in the segment and Audi or BMW do not have anything like it.
03-07-19, 06:43 AM
#60
it seems you dont like new LS500 and hence you believe Lexus is not luxury brand anymore.
Reality is that LS500 and LS500h sell at considerably higher prices than old LS, they look unique, luxurious and special. Overall Lexus average prices are going north every year, while their competition is going south.
Personally, new LS is finally a real luxury flagship. 2007 model was certainly premium, but that is about it... it was affordable premium barge. 2019 LS is unique, interesting car with some exquisite details found only in luxury brands.
In any case, LS and LC are pretty unique in the segment and Audi or BMW do not have anything like it.
Reality is that LS500 and LS500h sell at considerably higher prices than old LS, they look unique, luxurious and special. Overall Lexus average prices are going north every year, while their competition is going south.
Personally, new LS is finally a real luxury flagship. 2007 model was certainly premium, but that is about it... it was affordable premium barge. 2019 LS is unique, interesting car with some exquisite details found only in luxury brands.
In any case, LS and LC are pretty unique in the segment and Audi or BMW do not have anything like it.
Its all about sales. If the new version attract more customers to the LS line then that’s a win. If they alienate old school LS owners and don’t pick up enough new customers to the LS line, then not so good.