Toyota Cost Cutting, really grinding my gears.
#61
Lexus Fanatic
ES:
I'm talking about the button right in the center
LS500 (no button):
I believe the spacer button remove is 100% to save money. They did not remove in the ES but did in the Avalon and most new Toyotas. I would like to know a valid reason as to why they did not remove in the ES? I can't tell if the LS has the spacer.
One big change you see in Lexus today is their switchgear is no longer the same as Toyotas.
#62
This is a fair response ^^^. Lexus did remove the AC button in the ES as well. New UX or LC has none.
I believe the spacer button remove is 100% to save money. They did not remove in the ES but did in the Avalon and most new Toyotas. I would like to know a valid reason as to why they did not remove in the ES? I can't tell if the LS has the spacer.
I believe the spacer button remove is 100% to save money. They did not remove in the ES but did in the Avalon and most new Toyotas. I would like to know a valid reason as to why they did not remove in the ES? I can't tell if the LS has the spacer.
The new ES may share the chassis with the Avalon but to help differentiate it from Toyota's it doesn't share the same parts bin window switch that it has in the past. The new ES is using the RX, GS, NX one. Although for some reason it doesn't have the chrome tips that the ones I mention do.
#63
Lexus Fanatic
And as for it being "impossible to hit both windows with the divider" my friend who just bought the ES350 hits both windows all the time. Has the dividers.
#64
Lexus Champion
What an interesting thread!
I have lots of experience in designing molded plastic parts. The reason for the deletion of that divider could be one of many things. I'd have a hard time casting it as "cost savings" based on mold design or how much material is used, even in large scale.
Some thoughts:
- They could be using a different plastic material now that doesn't "flow" so easily into the mold crevice, making fabrication a challenge.
- It could be that those dividers/tabs would sometimes break in production, so it was better to do away with it and save some rework/scrap costs.
- It could be based on consumer feedback for a desire to hit both switches with one finger, to lower both front windows.
- It could be as simple as it being time to redo the mold and the engineers said "well, there's no real need for that, so let's get rid of it".
As for why Lexus still has it...
- If it was a material flow issue with the molds, the different plastic used in Lexus may not exhibit that issue.
- If it's that tabs would break in production, it could be that Lexus production is in lower numbers, so the motivation to fix it wasn't there, or that the plastic used in the Lexus versions don't break as easily.
-It could be that they haven't had a need to redo the molds so they simply haven't changed it.
So I don't know the reason, but I know there are several possible explanations.
I have lots of experience in designing molded plastic parts. The reason for the deletion of that divider could be one of many things. I'd have a hard time casting it as "cost savings" based on mold design or how much material is used, even in large scale.
Some thoughts:
- They could be using a different plastic material now that doesn't "flow" so easily into the mold crevice, making fabrication a challenge.
- It could be that those dividers/tabs would sometimes break in production, so it was better to do away with it and save some rework/scrap costs.
- It could be based on consumer feedback for a desire to hit both switches with one finger, to lower both front windows.
- It could be as simple as it being time to redo the mold and the engineers said "well, there's no real need for that, so let's get rid of it".
As for why Lexus still has it...
- If it was a material flow issue with the molds, the different plastic used in Lexus may not exhibit that issue.
- If it's that tabs would break in production, it could be that Lexus production is in lower numbers, so the motivation to fix it wasn't there, or that the plastic used in the Lexus versions don't break as easily.
-It could be that they haven't had a need to redo the molds so they simply haven't changed it.
So I don't know the reason, but I know there are several possible explanations.
#65
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
What an interesting thread!
I have lots of experience in designing molded plastic parts. The reason for the deletion of that divider could be one of many things. I'd have a hard time casting it as "cost savings" based on mold design or how much material is used, even in large scale.
Some thoughts:
- They could be using a different plastic material now that doesn't "flow" so easily into the mold crevice, making fabrication a challenge.
- It could be that those dividers/tabs would sometimes break in production, so it was better to do away with it and save some rework/scrap costs.
- It could be based on consumer feedback for a desire to hit both switches with one finger, to lower both front windows.
- It could be as simple as it being time to redo the mold and the engineers said "well, there's no real need for that, so let's get rid of it".
As for why Lexus still has it...
- If it was a material flow issue with the molds, the different plastic used in Lexus may not exhibit that issue.
- If it's that tabs would break in production, it could be that Lexus production is in lower numbers, so the motivation to fix it wasn't there, or that the plastic used in the Lexus versions don't break as easily.
-It could be that they haven't had a need to redo the molds so they simply haven't changed it.
So I don't know the reason, but I know there are several possible explanations.
I have lots of experience in designing molded plastic parts. The reason for the deletion of that divider could be one of many things. I'd have a hard time casting it as "cost savings" based on mold design or how much material is used, even in large scale.
Some thoughts:
- They could be using a different plastic material now that doesn't "flow" so easily into the mold crevice, making fabrication a challenge.
- It could be that those dividers/tabs would sometimes break in production, so it was better to do away with it and save some rework/scrap costs.
- It could be based on consumer feedback for a desire to hit both switches with one finger, to lower both front windows.
- It could be as simple as it being time to redo the mold and the engineers said "well, there's no real need for that, so let's get rid of it".
As for why Lexus still has it...
- If it was a material flow issue with the molds, the different plastic used in Lexus may not exhibit that issue.
- If it's that tabs would break in production, it could be that Lexus production is in lower numbers, so the motivation to fix it wasn't there, or that the plastic used in the Lexus versions don't break as easily.
-It could be that they haven't had a need to redo the molds so they simply haven't changed it.
So I don't know the reason, but I know there are several possible explanations.
I love Toyota and Lexus, as much as the next person. However, a little critical thought can go a long way. For example, the new Cruise control buttons are not as easy and simple to use as the time tested older method with the lever behind the wheel.
#66
Lexus Fanatic
Shouldn't do the system any damage as long as it's not done repeatedly or for long periods of time. The most that it could do (lowering or raising more than one window at once) is run a little more current than usual through the window-regulator, or draw a little more current than usual from the battery (or alternator, if the engine is running). Toyota doesn't use junk-electronics in their vehicles, so it's not likely to burn anything out.
#67
Lexus Champion
I looked at the window controls in my 3-Series on my drive home--no dividers (and I've never accidentally hit the passenger window in 4 years of ownership--back window, though, yes). I don't think it's cost-cutting, though, because in the F30 3-Series mid cycle refresh, they added chrome accents to the window controls. So it would seem at odds to add cost to a part that went thru cost-cuts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
#68
Lexus Champion
Suit yourself. I haven't needed to look down at a power window switch in decades.
#69
Lexus Fanatic
Like I replied above, however, hitting two buttons at once probably won't do the system any harm, especially with the good-quality electronics that Toyota uses. I used to do it myself, many decades ago, in high school, when I worked part-time in a car wash. Back then, only luxury cars had power windows, and, of course, they all had to be up before the water started spraying.
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
What an interesting thread!
I have lots of experience in designing molded plastic parts. The reason for the deletion of that divider could be one of many things. I'd have a hard time casting it as "cost savings" based on mold design or how much material is used, even in large scale.
I have lots of experience in designing molded plastic parts. The reason for the deletion of that divider could be one of many things. I'd have a hard time casting it as "cost savings" based on mold design or how much material is used, even in large scale.
Here is the UX.
The Toyota models keep the divider for the power locks, but not the windows.
Here is my 4Runner. There is a lot of plastic under the buttons.
Thanks for the post. I appreciate your thoughts on the subject.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 02-06-19 at 06:56 PM.
#71
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Do you really believe the Toyota engineer in his little cubicle is sitting there and only working on only Toyota parts? Then there is a Lexus engineer working on only Lexus parts?
#72
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I looked at the window controls in my 3-Series on my drive home--no dividers (and I've never accidentally hit the passenger window in 4 years of ownership--back window, though, yes). I don't think it's cost-cutting, though, because in the F30 3-Series mid cycle refresh, they added chrome accents to the window controls. So it would seem at odds to add cost to a part that went thru cost-cuts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
#73
Lexus Fanatic
#74
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The reviewers very rarely own the cars they drive, Toyota or Lexus owners opinions like myself, or yourself are far more important . Why would the stalk not be as good as the steering wheel controls?
#75
Lexus Champion
I don’t mind the stalk but wish it was illuminated in my Lexus like it is in my Toyota.