Declining sales of anything without 'utility' in its description
#76
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i'm sure steve meant swap the possibly larger rims/tires that come on a high spec model with the smaller factory ones you like which should not have any complications. in fact many dealers will do this for you as part of a sale.
#77
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i must state again, there is no 'great war against nice-driving sedans'. there was no war on a pontiac aztek when it was dropped, or an amc pacer, a ford edsel, ford ltd's, ford thunderbirds, all oldsmobiles, all pontiacs including the hugely successful in its prime trans am, corvair, or any of hundreds of other models. there is no there there.
manufacturers stop making certain vehicles when they're no longer viable... they're not in the business of making cars in small volumes at a loss to keep a dwindling number of customers happy. and nothing stays the same, you can't just keep a model the same, you have to make changes, which on a vehicle with dwindling sales, is suicidal if there seems no prospect of increased sales.
even a vehicle that enjoys a long production run goes through complete redesigns... was there a 'war' on version 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. of accord, camry, lexus es, etc.? no. the manufacturers concluded they had to be replaced (not just enhanced) to remain competitive.
since i'm in the IT field, i have many clients who complain that the computer they have has become obsolete and slow. a computer model's availability is typically a year to 18 months and it's replaced! there is no war on computers, or phones, etc. either.
back to the thread topic specifically, it sucks for you and other fans of the lacrosse and other non-luxury large sedans. but it's life, and not a 'war'.
look at car sales numbers, i'm sensing that the great wealth divide is exacerbating things in this area too... that popular large luxury sedans are still doing pretty well still despite tons of luxury suvs being sold as well. as i've said, i think most of those not able or willing to spend as much, have moved to suvs instead because the only reason they previously wanted a large non-luxury sedan was the room and that's far surpassed by suvs.
manufacturers stop making certain vehicles when they're no longer viable... they're not in the business of making cars in small volumes at a loss to keep a dwindling number of customers happy. and nothing stays the same, you can't just keep a model the same, you have to make changes, which on a vehicle with dwindling sales, is suicidal if there seems no prospect of increased sales.
even a vehicle that enjoys a long production run goes through complete redesigns... was there a 'war' on version 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. of accord, camry, lexus es, etc.? no. the manufacturers concluded they had to be replaced (not just enhanced) to remain competitive.
since i'm in the IT field, i have many clients who complain that the computer they have has become obsolete and slow. a computer model's availability is typically a year to 18 months and it's replaced! there is no war on computers, or phones, etc. either.
back to the thread topic specifically, it sucks for you and other fans of the lacrosse and other non-luxury large sedans. but it's life, and not a 'war'.
look at car sales numbers, i'm sensing that the great wealth divide is exacerbating things in this area too... that popular large luxury sedans are still doing pretty well still despite tons of luxury suvs being sold as well. as i've said, i think most of those not able or willing to spend as much, have moved to suvs instead because the only reason they previously wanted a large non-luxury sedan was the room and that's far surpassed by suvs.
#78
Lexus Fanatic
When I got my 17 LS they were more than happy to swap the 18" wheels off my 2015 for the 19" wheels off the 2017. I wound up not doing that but it would have been no problem.
Where they balk is when you want BETTER wheels.
#79
Lexus Champion
You are correct. I completely forgot about the ELR and I had argued at the time that GM should have introduced the new extended-range EV technology on the higher profit margin Cadillac brand instead of the mass-market Chevrolet brand.
It cannot be as simple as cost. If it was that simple, the less-expensive, lower profit margin Malibu would have the simpler, less-costly mild hybrid system, and the higher profit margin LaCrosse would use the Volt's more expensive Voltec hybrid system.
It cannot be as simple as cost. If it was that simple, the less-expensive, lower profit margin Malibu would have the simpler, less-costly mild hybrid system, and the higher profit margin LaCrosse would use the Volt's more expensive Voltec hybrid system.
#80
Racer
Really interesting discussion on this topic. "They're making so many disposable products and when you make disposable products, the people behind them begin to become disposable as well."
#81
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
You may (?) have a point, however, about disposable customers.
#82
Lexus Fanatic
GM cars and all American cars in North America have perceptions problem IMO. Why buy a GM or Ford if Toyota or Honda has something that can do it all equally as well?
If I was a UAW worker at the Fairfax assembly plant, I would be quite worried right about now.
If I was a UAW worker at the Fairfax assembly plant, I would be quite worried right about now.
#83
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
i must state again, there is no 'great war against nice-driving sedans'. there was no war on a pontiac aztek when it was dropped, or an amc pacer, a ford edsel, ford ltd's, ford thunderbirds, all oldsmobiles, all pontiacs including the hugely successful in its prime trans am, corvair, or any of hundreds of other models. there is no there there.
#84
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Because, for years, Toyota and Honda dealers were arrogant, were not willing to discount much if at all, and treated customers (to use a term that signdetres, above, coined) like they were disposable. They got away with that for a long time, because they actually DID make better products, but, with excellent vehicles today from both Ford and GM, that is no longer necessarily the case. The Fusion, MKZ, Malibu, Silverado, F-150, Impala, and a number of others are all as good better as their Toyota/Honda competition, and the Lacrosse, while not the equal of a Lexus in reliability, IMO outpaces any Lexus product made today in riding and seating comfort except for the LS460....can't speak for the LS500, because I haven't driven it yet.
#85
1UZFE/2JZGTE
iTrader: (11)
Really interesting discussion on this topic. "They're making so many disposable products and when you make disposable products, the people behind them begin to become disposable as well."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2chglKQSc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2chglKQSc
#86
Lexus Fanatic
vehicles today from both Ford and GM, that is no longer necessarily the case. The Fusion, MKZ, Malibu, Silverado, F-150, Impala, and a number of others are all as good better as their Toyota/Honda competition, and the Lacrosse, while not the equal of a Lexus in reliability, IMO outpaces any Lexus product made today in riding and seating comfort except for the LS460....can't speak for the LS500, because I haven't driven it yet.
#87
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
It cannot be as simple as cost. If it was that simple, the less-expensive, lower profit margin Malibu would have the simpler, less-costly mild hybrid system, and the higher profit margin LaCrosse would use the Volt's more expensive Voltec hybrid system.
Now, having said that, when the Volt first came out, it was significantly overpriced...perhaps because it had no competition. It started at 41K, and loaded models on the lot went for near 50K, with mark-ups. Note that when the Toyota Prius Plug-In debuted, the Volt had some serious competition....and GM dropped the price several thousand dollars (I don't remember exactly how much) almost overnight.
#88
Driver School Candidate
No offense, but if I told you what I would do (or have done) you will just find a way to belittle or argue with it. But I will say this: I would have done almost anything else before laying off 15% of the work force and alienating those customers who still want the vehicles produced in those plants, even if they are not SUVs. GMs management not only tossed out the bathwater, but the baby with it.
Not only that, but Trump is an experienced businessman.....one of the most experienced on the planet. He knows sound (and unsound) business practices when he sees them. He's not going to tweet nonsense.
Not only that, but Trump is an experienced businessman.....one of the most experienced on the planet. He knows sound (and unsound) business practices when he sees them. He's not going to tweet nonsense.
lol
#90
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Exactly my point. The proof is indeed in the pudding.....bad leadership on the part of GM and Ford. It's gotten them into trouble before, and will very likely do so again. And the stock market will not necessarily be able to help them.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-03-18 at 03:10 PM.