GM closing Ontario, Detroit, and Ohio factories
#406
Lexus Fanatic
Nope.....with all due respect, that's where you are mistaken. I'm for true capitalism, not simple greed. True capitalism invests money for the overall good of the public, one's country, and to build a successful business. Capitalism was never meant to become what the great Robber Barons of the late 19th and early 20th century (Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie, Frick, etc....) turned it into at the time.....an system of economic slavery in the factories, as opposed to the earlier Southern system, based on race, on the plantations. It took the rise of unions and legislation to finally break the power of those barons. It is also worth noting that, like I told Jill, the American auto industry reached its peak when the UAW itself was at its peak. The UAW was anything BUT a strain on the auto manufacturers.
As Americans, one of our priorities should be a good economy for our own fellow citizens, not just people halfway around the world....that means investing IN our fellow citizens. You say the world doesn't operate that way. It does if we simply use some ethics.
As Americans, one of our priorities should be a good economy for our own fellow citizens, not just people halfway around the world....that means investing IN our fellow citizens. You say the world doesn't operate that way. It does if we simply use some ethics.
Do some reading:
https://www.thebalance.com/capitalis...s-cons-3305588
Capitalism vs. Socialism
Proponents of socialism say their system evolves from capitalism. It improves upon it by providing a direct route between citizens and the goods and services they want. The people as a whole own the factors of production instead of individual business owners.Many socialistic governments own oil, gas, and other energy-related companies. It’s strategic for a government to control these profitable industries. The government collects the profit instead of corporate taxes on a private oil company. It distributes these profits in government spending programs. These state-owned companies still compete with private ones in the global economy.
We have a very good economy for our fellow citizens, its just not an economy where manufacturing has a bright future.
And at one time the UAW was not a strain, but that time has past. You have to stop living in the past.
#407
Lexus Fanatic
What you are describing is not true capitalism. Capitalism by its very nature provides for investment as a means to create wealth for the person doing the investing. Investing money for the overall good of the public is a tenant of socialism, not capitalism. With capitalism trade and industry are controlled by private enterprise for profit.
Do some reading:
https://www.thebalance.com/capitalis...s-cons-3305588
What you want is for the people to control these factors of production and to make investment decisions for GM based on their own needs, rather than maximizing profit. Thats socialism.
Do some reading:
https://www.thebalance.com/capitalis...s-cons-3305588
What you want is for the people to control these factors of production and to make investment decisions for GM based on their own needs, rather than maximizing profit. Thats socialism.
And at one time the UAW was not a strain, but that time has past. You have to stop living in the past.
#408
Lexus Fanatic
The exact same arguments you are making now were also being made against the UAW in the 1960s, when Ford and GM were at their peak. The UAW did not prevent GM and Ford from selling vehicles back then (and making a profit), and are not doing so today. It is true, however (or partly true, anyway) the the nature of the market has changed......SUVs, except for Jeep Wagoneers and the International Scout/Travelall, were almost insignificant back then.
You know a lot about cars Mike, but you don't know a lot about business. I've found thats common with career government workers. You wake up twice a month and there's a check for everything you need, you don't worry about being downsized or demoted or fired, and if your employer can't make ends meet, they just print more money. The real world doesn't work that way...
#409
Lexus Fanatic
[QUOTE=SW17LS;10409006]
First, government is a part of the real world...it regulates it. Second, Federal retiree, by law, get paid once a month...not twice, like active employees. Third, government agencies cannot just sit down and make up their own budgets, or print their own money......they are dependent on Congress and the President. Even the Treasury's Bureau of Engraving and Printing, downtown, cannot just keep and spend that printed money *****-nilly....it is slightly controlled by one of the strictest processes in the country. Fourth, I DO agree with you on one point....there is FAR too much waste in Federal budgets. Something is wrong when agencies re-paint their office walls or buy (unnecessary) new office furniture rather than turn back any excess money in the budget....I saw that happen routinely.
You know a lot about cars Mike, but you don't know a lot about business. I've found thats common with career government workers. You wake up twice a month and there's a check for everything you need, you don't worry about being downsized or demoted or fired, and if your employer can't make ends meet, they just print more money. The real world doesn't work that way...
#410
Lexus Fanatic
First, government is a part of the real world...it regulates it. Second, Federal retiree, by law, get paid once a month...not twice, like active employees. Third, government agencies cannot just sit down and make up their own budgets, or print their own money......they are dependent on Congress and the President. Even the Treasury's Bureau of Engraving and Printing, downtown, cannot just keep and spend that printed money *****-nilly....it is slightly controlled by one of the strictest processes in the country. Fourth, I DO agree with you on one point....there is FAR too much waste in Federal budgets. Something is wrong when agencies re-paint their office walls or buy (unnecessary) new office furniture rather than turn back any excess money in the budget....I saw that happen routinely.
I have a lot of clients who are federal employees and I see this all the time, no concept of what the world is like from a business standpoint. My point is not to single you out, but to try and make you understand that decisions made like this are not made out of greed. These people who run GM take this all very seriously. As somebody who owns a business that employs people and who is responsible for their livelihood I can tell you, this has kept Mary Barra up at night. Its what needs to be done to keep the company healthy though for the long term facing a market that is going to have tremendous change over the next 5-10 years. They owe that foresight to their other employees and shareholders, and to the legacy of the company itself.
You should watch this. The focus is Ford, but this applies to GM even moreso since they aren't as well positioned as Ford. This discusses some of the market realities these companies and the industry are facing and will be facing:
#411
Lexus Fanatic
The fact that you're complaining about the fact that I said you got paid twice a month and you get paid once (I was talking about active employees, by the way) illustrates that you completely miss my point. The point is, you get paid every month as a retiree. That doesn't exist elsewhere in the world lol.
Most people in private enterprise plan for their own retirement, their retirement income is derived by savings and investing THEY have done.
When your agency has a budget shortfall, they don't lay people off.
You enjoy a comfortable, risk free retirement and you enjoyed a comfortable, risk free living when you were working. Thats not reality for people who work in the private sector, and its not reality for people who run businesses and companies and actually drive the economy.
You should watch this. The focus is Ford, but this applies to GM even moreso since they aren't as well positioned as Ford. This discusses some of the market realities these companies and the industry are facing and will be facing:
You know a lot about cars Mike,
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-14-19 at 05:22 PM.
#412
Lexus Fanatic
So did I. I didn't just ignore my future. I made many tax-free municipal investments, so I wouldn't have to rely on my pension alone. If anything, it paid off more than I expected.....I make more than I need, even in retirement.
You just don't get it, like I said its common for those who are in your situation. You've operated in a government bubble for your working life and you just don't get it.
Ever hear of a RIF (Reduction-in Force)? That's when an agency gives up and issues pink-slips.
First, if anything, that shows that it is necessary to improve things for those in the private sector....and IMO you don't accomplish that by shutting down plants. Second, you can't say that what I did was not beneficial to the economy. We worked, every day, to keep both civilian and military planes flying, through updated charts, navigation information, NOTAMS (Notices to Airmen), and a number of other aviation-related issues. Much of today's commerce (not to mention Fed-Ex and UPS) is carried by planes.
I didnt say what you did was not beneficial, I said that you don't understand the realities of employment or employing in the private sector, and the more you write the more clear it is you don't.
You absolutely do accomplish strengthening the company by shutting down plants that are under utilized and no longer fit into your company's plan. If companies don't make hard choices like that, they endanger their future and the futures of the rest of their employees. They don't have limitless funds like the Government does.
I watched the video. It's basically a cheer-leading film for the dump-the-sedan movement.
Last edited by Allen K; 01-14-19 at 05:53 PM. Reason: Watch the personal commentary
#413
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...gm-oshawa-jobs
Looks like the Ontario government PC is not on board to save Oshawa.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...ecs-in-detroit
more politics than actually reality?
Looks like the Ontario government PC is not on board to save Oshawa.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...ecs-in-detroit
more politics than actually reality?
#415
Lexus Fanatic
Interesting article, Jill. Here's a quote from it:
Jerry Dias said Monday at the North American International Auto Show that he has had discussions with Ontario Premier Doug Ford, and Navdeep Bains, the Federal minister of innovation, science and economic development.
“Minister Bains was saying they’re not going to accept the decision to close the plant,” said Dias.
“Minister Bains was saying they’re not going to accept the decision to close the plant,” said Dias.
#416
Lexus Fanatic
This goes beyond "fuss"...we're way past that point. I've never seen this kind a reaction before on a national-government level, and I've been following the industry since the 1960s, through all kinds of crises. Marry Barra has not simply opened up a can of worms.....she has let out a herd of Bengal Tigers.
#417
Lexus Fanatic
All bark and no bite. Lose their business license in Canada even more Canadians lose their jobs.
#418
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Looks like the Oshawa workers just can't give it up to GMs decision.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4989231
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4989231
#419
Lexus Fanatic
James said the decision to close the plant at the end of the year means the company is violating a collective agreement, signed in 2016, that covers a period until September 2020.
#420
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I have been boycotting GM my whole life LOL
Here is the latest campaign from Unifor. I am very surprised GM Canada responded and made a statement.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4888090/g...nt-action/amp/
Here is the latest campaign from Unifor. I am very surprised GM Canada responded and made a statement.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4888090/g...nt-action/amp/