GM closing Ontario, Detroit, and Ohio factories
01-12-19, 03:57 PM
#391
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Been there many times. Yes, not the thread, however I do agree with a few points you made earlier.
01-12-19, 04:22 PM
#392
Lexus Fanatic
Have you been to see the Oshawa plant? Some plants give guided tours...not sure about that one. On the map, it's only a few miles from where you often are in Toronto.
You are correct, BTW, about it being the highest-rated GM plant for quality....at least per Wiki. The only significant glitch I've seen with vehicles coming out of that plant was the front-end/steering-wheel shimmy on the early Cadillac XTS (I wrote about that in my review)...and that turned out to be an engineering problem, not a quality-goof in the plant on something like a bad tire-mount or balance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshawa_Car_Assembly
Originally Posted by Wiki
Since 1999, it has won more quality and productivity awards than any other GM plant. The plant is part of the larger GM Autoplex.
01-12-19, 04:52 PM
#393
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks.
Have you been to see the Oshawa plant? Some plants give guided tours...not sure about that one. On the map, it's only a few miles from where you often are in Toronto.
You are correct, BTW, about it being the highest-rated GM plant for quality....at least per Wiki. The only significant glitch I've seen with vehicles coming out of that plant was the front-end/steering-wheel shimmy on the early Cadillac XTS (I wrote about that in my review)...and that turned out to be an engineering problem, not a quality-goof in the plant on something like a bad tire-mount or balance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshawa_Car_Assembly
Have you been to see the Oshawa plant? Some plants give guided tours...not sure about that one. On the map, it's only a few miles from where you often are in Toronto.
You are correct, BTW, about it being the highest-rated GM plant for quality....at least per Wiki. The only significant glitch I've seen with vehicles coming out of that plant was the front-end/steering-wheel shimmy on the early Cadillac XTS (I wrote about that in my review)...and that turned out to be an engineering problem, not a quality-goof in the plant on something like a bad tire-mount or balance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshawa_Car_Assembly
01-12-19, 07:52 PM
#394
Lexus Fanatic
NAFTA made it way too easy to move manufacturing to Mexico 25 years ago. Whats happening now is not caused by NAFTA.
01-12-19, 08:39 PM
#395
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Nafta definitely factors in. GM imports seven models or about 425K units to the US and Canada. VW, Nissan Sentra, Toyota Tacoma. Upcoming Blazer. GM could of very easily put Blazer production in any of the plants that are closing.
01-12-19, 08:48 PM
#396
Lexus Fanatic
01-12-19, 08:54 PM
#397
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yes, GM could put Blazer production into one or more of those plants, but it is an open question as to just how easily. It would probably require extensive retooling, and perhaps retraining some of the workers. IMO, however, it would be worth it to keep jobs in the region....it is simply imperative that the loss of jobs overseas be stopped, even at significant cost.
01-13-19, 10:00 AM
#398
Lexus Fanatic
Yes, GM could put Blazer production into one or more of those plants, but it is an open question as to just how easily. It would probably require extensive retooling, and perhaps retraining some of the workers. IMO, however, it would be worth it to keep jobs in the region....it is simply imperative that the loss of jobs overseas be stopped, even at significant cost.
These companies don't exist for the purpose of hiring people. They exist to make profit, bottom line, and you cant force them to make business decisions that cost them profit.
You're either for free enterprise or you're not...
01-13-19, 10:43 AM
#399
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yes nafta did happen 25 years ago. However, it’s systematic, GM is expanding their manufacturing operations of their Mexico plant (Blazer) while at the same time GM is closing production in the US in Canada. Early in 2017,GM also laid workers at their Ingersoll plant while they increased production of the vehicle made at the Mexico plant. You can go back to the Quebec closure as well in the 2000’s. At the end of the day, GM is not building nor are they expanding, but they are in Mexico. Which is all becuase of NAFTA which allows it.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 01-13-19 at 10:52 AM.
01-13-19, 11:10 AM
#400
Lexus Fanatic
The bottom line is its just too expensive to make things here. You can't deliver products to us as consumers at lower and lower prices and continue to pay Americans to build stuff at higher and higher wages, thats just not sustainable.
What we need to do is prepare our population for the economy of the future and train them to be able to do the sorts of jobs that will be available in the US in the future. Continuing to try and "force" manufacturing and such here when the market doesn't support that is not the answer.
What we need to do is prepare our population for the economy of the future and train them to be able to do the sorts of jobs that will be available in the US in the future. Continuing to try and "force" manufacturing and such here when the market doesn't support that is not the answer.
01-13-19, 07:07 PM
#401
Lexus Fanatic
I'll all for capitalism and free-markets, and a reasonable amount of consumer choice in vehicles. But, in the end, although CL is a global forum, most of us in Car Chat are either Americans or Canadians....and our first loyalty, IMO, has to be to our own countries. Capitalism, contrary to some opinions, is NOT simply finding the lowest labor price overseas and then telling workers in your own country to go jump in a lake. IMO, there is a difference between true capitalism and greed.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-13-19 at 08:08 PM.
01-13-19, 07:31 PM
#402
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
01-13-19, 08:23 PM
#403
Lexus Fanatic
History, though, is inconclusive on that. When the UAW was at its strongest (1950s, 60s, 70s), and covered the most employees with the highest wages, GM basically owned the American market, with an almost 60% share of the industry. Like it or not, over the years, the weaker the UAW got, the smaller and weaker GM got right along with it....right up to the bankruptcy.
You mentioned Hyundai. As for Hyundai, their prices have gone up noticeably in recent years, despite lower labor costs. That's partly because of the excellent materials and construction-techniques they are using on their vehicles today....I got another sample of that, just a couple of days ago, reviewing the new Genesis G70.
01-13-19, 08:55 PM
#404
Lexus Fanatic
I simply don't agree with that line of reasoning. Those who can afford five (or sometimes six) figures for a new vehicle can afford slightly more to cover the cost of American labor. Some auto manufacturers cut costs enough as it is (no spare tires, manual hood prop-rods, cheap trim/interior materials, tack-on video screens, etc....) even independent of labor costs and/or where the vehicle is manufactured. If one cannot afford a new car, then look at a used one.
I'll all for capitalism and free-markets.
01-13-19, 09:09 PM
#405
Lexus Fanatic
Nope.....with all due respect, that's where you are mistaken. I'm for true capitalism, not simple greed. True capitalism invests money for the overall good of the public, one's country, and to build a successful business. Capitalism was never meant to become what the great Robber Barons of the late 19th and early 20th century (Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie, Frick, etc....) turned it into at the time.....an system of economic slavery in the factories, as opposed to the earlier Southern system, based on race, on the plantations. It took the rise of unions and legislation to finally break the power of those barons. It is also worth noting that, like I told Jill, the American auto industry reached its peak when the UAW itself was at its peak. The UAW was anything BUT a strain on the auto manufacturers.
As Americans, one of our priorities should be a good economy for our own fellow citizens, not just people halfway around the world....that means investing IN our fellow citizens. You say the world doesn't operate that way. It does if we simply use some ethics.
As Americans, one of our priorities should be a good economy for our own fellow citizens, not just people halfway around the world....that means investing IN our fellow citizens. You say the world doesn't operate that way. It does if we simply use some ethics.