GM closing Ontario, Detroit, and Ohio factories
#361
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
GM could absolutely export to China. The US exports about 275K units a year to China. Canada does not have an issue exporting to China. It can be done, but more money is to be made in China because of cheap labor. Interesting enough, the US has a trade surplus in vehcile exports to China, the very thing Trump and his supporters claim the US needs.
#362
Lexus Fanatic
Well, to be honest, few things, right now, would personally make me happier to see GM and/or Ford get boycotted by the public for their actions. But I will not call for one publically, for three reasons. First, no matter what GM or Ford's actions, a number of people look to me for car help and buying advice (yes, I actually have a life outside of CL) and, IMO, it would be unethical of me (or anyone else) to try and tell other people not to spend their money if a GM or Ford product fits their needs (as the Lacrosse fit mine). Second, I believe in Karma, God, Fate, What-Goes-Around-Comes-Around, Sowing/Reaping........whatever you want to call it. So, IF GM and Ford are doing something morally wrong, forces far greater than me could be at work in the background, and will handle the situation. Third, the public itself has already had a role in this action by worshipping the SUV, and, as a result, GM and Ford marketers are only responding by shutting down sedan plants. But GM and Ford may also be attempting to force more people away from sedans because they consider SUVs more profitable....in other words, engineering more demand for SUVs when there was not as much previously.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-09-19 at 08:02 PM.
#363
Lexus Champion
Second, I believe in Karma, God, Fate, What-Goes-Around-Comes-Around, Sowing/Reaping........whatever you want to call it. So, IF GM and Ford are doing something morally wrong, forces far greater than me could be at work in the background, and will handle the situation.
Third, the public itself has already had a role in this action by worshipping the SUV, and, as a result, GM and Ford marketers are only responding by shutting down sedan plants. But GM and Ford may also be attempting to force more people away from sedans because they consider SUVs more profitable....in other words, engineering more demand for SUVs when there was not as much previously.
I own one sedan and one CUV. Both great vehicles that serve different needs, but there is no doubt that my Highlander wins out in every category relating to utility. My GS is way more fun to drive, but that's the compromise, as the Highlander is better at almost everything else (gas mileage, room, features, smooth ride). As much as I love sedans (and I really, really do), if we were to go down to one car, the sedan would be out of here.
#364
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
boycotts never work.
i saw canadian gm workers are striking now... good luck with that. one more reason the plant should be closed.
i saw canadian gm workers are striking now... good luck with that. one more reason the plant should be closed.
#365
Lexus Fanatic
#366
Lexus Fanatic
I disagree. Boycotts that are strong enough, widespread enough, and determined enough will indeed work....but the problem is getting enough workers, long enough, in enough places to actually do it. If all of the GM plants throughout the country (and perhaps the world) strike at once, and are determined to carry it out, Mary Barra will be forced to change her mind....she will have no choice, or be overruled by her own board.
I agree, though, that getting a boycott or strike that wide is very difficult. Many workers think only about their own plant, and their own family, and don't always look at the bigger picture.
i saw canadian gm workers are striking now... good luck with that. one more reason the plant should be closed.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-10-19 at 10:11 AM.
#367
Lexus Fanatic
I don't get this very common CL belief that consumers buy SUVs and CUVs just because they are the hot item. The reality is that SUVs and CUVs have never been better and many of the drawbacks that haunted them before (poor ride, poor gas mileage, fewer features) are now gone.
#368
Lexus Champion
and, Second, that there is still indeed a significant core of sedan-buyers despite the overall SUV trend. GM and Ford have basically chosen to ignore the latter.
#369
Lexus Fanatic
I haven't seen anyone deny that...
Like I said, still lots of sedan options out there from plenty of manufacturers. I just cannot fathom getting so upset with a company for choosing to produce the products that sell the most. If the pendulum swings back and sedans fall back into favor, they'll just start outputting sedans again. Nothing is forever.
Like I said, still lots of sedan options out there from plenty of manufacturers. I just cannot fathom getting so upset with a company for choosing to produce the products that sell the most. If the pendulum swings back and sedans fall back into favor, they'll just start outputting sedans again. Nothing is forever.
No problem. I respect your opinions....always have. But I'm just one human being. My own opinion, in the big world of auto marketing, is worth little if anything. GM is not in trouble with me....they are in trouble with lots higher-ups than me, including two major autoworker unions, two Heads of State, and two national legislatures. They are the ones digging themselves into a hole, not me. Mary Barra has managed to do something that is quite rare in Congress...get BOTH major parties angry at her at the same time, and united in their cause. We also see a more or less similar reaction in the Canadian legislature.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-10-19 at 10:42 AM.
#370
Lexus Fanatic
#371
Lexus Champion
Thanks, I appreciate that.
My employer was given multi-billion dollar government tax breaks, only to turn around and lay off tens of thousands of employees last year. Our union and government officials were tossing out threats, stomping up and down, etc. and nothing happened. The jobs left, the people left, and we all moved on. It's just life with a big company. Just like at GM, Trump stood in our factory touting job growth, only to have it completely flipped around. I just don't see this being different with GM, and frankly, I do not want the government involved in telling our companies what to build and where.
But I'm just one human being. My own opinion, in the big world of auto marketing, is worth little if anything. GM is not in trouble with me....they are in trouble with lots higher-ups than me, including two major autoworker unions, two Heads of State, and two national legislatures. They are the ones digging themselves into a hole, not me. Mary Barra has managed to do something that is quite rare in Congress...get BOTH major parties angry at her at the same time, and united in their cause. We also see a more or less similar reaction in the Canadian legislature.
#372
Lexus Fanatic
#373
Lexus Champion
No argument there. But it's my understanding that the government no longer holds any stock in GM so they shouldn't be directing GM on what cars to build and what ones to retire. Now, if GM returns asking for money from the government, then yes, by all means, as a major shareholder they should be involved in some of the business decisions.
#374
Lexus Champion
Normailzing bad corporate behavior is a symptom of the fact that collectively society decided and was persuaded that corporations should have it both ways. Corporate welfare in the form of tax breaks, incentives and bail-ins when required. Restructuring and offshoring during good times, so the shareholders, BoDs and executive class managers can derive even more profits using the working class as their fodder.
Not much changes. The fact that some of the posts on this forum seem to come straight out of Ayn Rand or the Chicago School is kinda indictative of just how far reaching Reaganomics and by extension Thatcher-nomics extended their reach.
Sure GM needed to do something to get rid of the drag on the corporate bottom line because of slowing sedan sales. But actually not doing anything to mitigate the damage to the communities that supported GM shows no loyalty and no commitment to the very places that helped GM derive those profits in the first place.
The massive profit margin from building something in Mexico at $2 - $5 an hour vs $20-$25/hr is apparently lost on people. Do you think GM will heavily discount and subsidize the Blazer for you when you go to the showroom, because they only pay $5/hr?
Not much changes. The fact that some of the posts on this forum seem to come straight out of Ayn Rand or the Chicago School is kinda indictative of just how far reaching Reaganomics and by extension Thatcher-nomics extended their reach.
Sure GM needed to do something to get rid of the drag on the corporate bottom line because of slowing sedan sales. But actually not doing anything to mitigate the damage to the communities that supported GM shows no loyalty and no commitment to the very places that helped GM derive those profits in the first place.
The massive profit margin from building something in Mexico at $2 - $5 an hour vs $20-$25/hr is apparently lost on people. Do you think GM will heavily discount and subsidize the Blazer for you when you go to the showroom, because they only pay $5/hr?
#375
Lexus Fanatic
The Government's investment to save GM was not to benefit its shareholders and executives, it was because they wanted to save the jobs of all of GM's workers in the midst of the recession. It wasn't corporate welfare at all, it was entirely self serving.
What exactly would you like to see GM do for these workers and these communities?
What exactly would you like to see GM do for these workers and these communities?