Toys4RJill

SW17LS

When it comes to space efficiency I would agree. When it comes to overall quality and design, the new LS is beautiful in that regard. Great materials, great build quality, great seats, its a beautiful interior IMHO but I too find the reduction in space a big issue. The GS design is obviously older, but material quality is still better than the new ES.

My 03 ES was all over the place, to WV many times, western MD, upstate NY. Even on 64 and 68 there are sharp curves and such and that generation of ES is just not up to that sort of driving.

You mean 19" 45s. Its a similar situation to the outgoing ES with the 17 and 18 inch options, the 18s pay a big ride penalty. I too like a "Cush tush" ride, but you have to be able to feel comfortable and confident driving the car in all conditions. I felt that way in my 2010 ES, and I'm sure I would also in the 19 ES but I did not in the 03 ES.

I don't think any Lexus sedan has a fold down trunk...not sure why.

The new LS doesn't even have a ski pass through, where the 430 and 460 did (400 did not).

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The current 3rd gen IS does. It remains Lexus's only sedan that has 60/40 split fold rear seats. I don't understand why the new LS and ES don't offer it. Clearly they've demonstrated they can do it.

SW17LS

I don't think any flagship sedans have a fold down rear seat, but I would think it would be of value in the ES.

mmarshall

It's up to her, but my guess is that she would prefer the standard 17" wheels.

mmarshall

Quieter rims don't necessarily do much good if you have noisy tires. And, though there are exceptions, performance tires, as a group, tend to be noisier than average.

mmarshall

That's unbelievable. I briefly looked at a new LS500 when I was there, but didn't check on that. I'm not sure how to really comment on an 80K sedan without that feature.

I once owned a Mazda Protege sedan, costing in the low teens, that had that feature.

SW17LS

I'd be shocked if the ES you drove had performance tires. Just because they were 45 series tires doesn't mean they were performance tires, I'm sure they are Grand Touring tires.

S Class doesn't have one either...

Toys4RJill

Do you think Lexus would put noisy tires on a car with noise reduction rims?

SW17LS

Lexus has done so for years. They make pretty terrible OEM tire choices.

The LS has had the noise reducing rims since 2013, but that didn't stop them from using the terrible Bridgestone Turanza EL42 tires on it. I replaced them with literally 350 miles on the car and there was a huge reduction in road noise.

They use a mixture of tires, some pretty good Michelins if you get lucky, otherwise you get stuck with crappy Bridgestones or Dunlops.

Toys4RJill

The Lexus product guide states Bridgestone or Michelin. The only tires I have seen on the new ES in the Toronto area as well as Rochester are MXM4 for the F-sport and Energy for the ES350. Have not seen a set of Bridgestone.

JDR76

mmarshall

Hmmm......I'm not going to disagree with you, but this is a very interesting question (and you just might have something). I went back and carefully checked the web-site specs for the 2019 ES optional 18" wheel/tire package, and, as you correctly note, it does mention regular 45-series all-season tires.....not high-performance summer tires. Here's the web-site spec, copied directly:

WHEELS AND TIRES, AVAILABLE
18-in split-10-spoke alloy wheels with Dark Silver and machined finish and 235/45 R18 all-season tires*; 18-in split-five-spoke alloy noise-reduction wheels with high-gloss finish and 235/45 R18 all-season tires*

Yet, on my test car, which had that option (and I actually looked at the tire-markings on the car to make sure they were 45s, though they were obviously shorter than the taller 55s on the base cars), there was a small white placard stuck on the right-rear window advising that the tires on this case were considered performance tires, and that the tread would typically wear out in 20,000 or less. It's possible (though not likely) that this car had been retro-fitted with non-factory rubber. It's uncommon, sitting brand-new on a lot, but it does occasionally happen.

Case in point.....you remember Mike (1SICKLEX/LexFather), don't you? He helps manage an alloy-wheel company called Vossen (believe me, they make some nice stuff)......also has a separate forum now of his own, and goes by a different call-name. Several years ago, when I reviewed the Infiniti Q50 sedan (I deliberately chose a conventional-steer model, with mechanical linkage, because I had misgivings about the electronic Direct-Adaptive steering), one of the brand-new Q50s sitting on the lot had been retrofitted with a set of Vossen wheels/tires from Mike's company. It was not the one I chose to drive, but was apparently for sale, and was not spoken for by any specific customer. Perhaps something similar had happened with this ES I looked at, that it was special-ordered or retrofitted with non-standard rubber. Unfortunately, the tight-lipped salespeople often don't tell you these things unless you ask....I asked Mike himself about it at the time, but I don't remember what his answer was (and he obviously can't be expected to have every single order from his company in the back of his mind).

Toys4RJill

mmarshall

You're right, Jill...I've never seen true performance tires on an ES, either....at least brand new, unless some slammer has tried to customize it. Perhaps I should have asked about it. I didn't.....I just took the tire-placard sign on the car at its word. Wouldn't be the first mistake I've ever made. I'm not going to go back and redo the comments in the review, though, because it's a question I can't settle here, at my computer. I'm going to be out that way again in the near future, though (got a Audi review coming up).....perhaps I'll stop at the same Lexus shop and see if that car is still there, and have a close look at the tires again.