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Actually, if you look at the base A6 which is the largest seller here, the ES350 competes quite well. The base A6 has a 4 cyl. engine, front wheel drive, and costs about $51,000. It has 2" less rear seat leg room than the ES and 2 cu ft less trunk space. For the price of the base A6, you could get an ES350 UL with lots more equipment, faster acceleration, more room, quieter interior, and better reliability.
FWD A6 is the largest selling trim in AZ? They’re all Quattro here in the Bay Area.
Actually, if you look at the base A6 which is the largest seller here, the ES350 competes quite well. The base A6 has a 4 cyl. engine, front wheel drive, and costs about $51,000. It has 2" less rear seat leg room than the ES and 2 cu ft less trunk space. For the price of the base A6, you could get an ES350 UL with lots more equipment, faster acceleration, more room, quieter interior, and better reliability.
Actually, if you look at the base A6 which is the largest seller here, the ES350 competes quite well. The base A6 has a 4 cyl. engine, front wheel drive, and costs about $51,000. It has 2" less rear seat leg room than the ES and 2 cu ft less trunk space. For the price of the base A6, you could get an ES350 UL with lots more equipment, faster acceleration, more room, quieter interior, and better reliability.
thing is, ppl look pics of $75k new A6... reality is that base version for $60k is missing many of features in $45k ES.
2. There is a strange, deliberate pattern to the armrest material both in the center and on the doors. Its a strange striped type effect, which looks weird and is unnecessary IMHO, just calls attention to the fact these areas aren't really leather. Didnt notice this in the first one I sat in because the interior was black. Fully agree. I didn't notice it on an F Sport I saw yesterday (black interior) but online pics show the lines are still there.
3. I don't like the plastic material around the window switches or the center console. Fully agree and commented on this as well. Looks cheap and draws attention to an otherwise really nice door panel (esp. w / ML speakers). Pic below.
4. I thought the seats felt really narrow. Was spot on for me. It's all the trend on the latest gen Lexus models though typically, they feel more narrow on F Sport due to the more aggressive bolstering.
5. Really don't like the one uncovered cupholder. Agree. Would have been nice to have a hinged and dampened cover like the prior gen found in the same spot.
Material quality is quite good for the segment. Hard plastics on the lower doors and lower dash, but its not as "in your face" as it was with the outgoing ES, and touchpoint are better, such as where your hand touches when you open the door. All in all doors, etc feel a little more solid than the outgoing car, but obviously still not LS level (or GS level). Love that the car now has a floor hinged gas pedal! Agree. Better overall and the glovebox door too is not hard plastic but a really nice soft-touch plastic almost like the door arm rest.
My gripe with the latest Lexus vehicles is that they are not class-leading in tech and performance and in some cases like the ES, not even the basics like heated rear seats that the Avalon offers. Thankfully, interiors are nicely styled, well built, with nice materials for their segment.
The issue with Japanese cars in general is that they are pretty conservative by nature and the Japanese culture doesn't "care" for luxury cars. If you look at Japanese luxury car sales, its super low.
A lot of the times - Japanese car companies are more about the bottom-line than pushing a car with the latest tech and performance specs - like MB and BMW. MB consistently upgrades their tech and BMW consistently improves their engine specs. This and the badge is the main reason why MB/BMW cost a ton.
Another issue to keep in mind of is the market is moving towards more of selling cars to China because they are becoming a huge car market. This is why MB and BMW makes special "L" version of their 3 and 5 series there. This is why Infiniti is going hybrid/EV to target the Chinese market. This is also why the Lexus ES was made specifically for the Chinese market. In China, they don't really care about the performance or big engines.
Lastly - I believe Lexus and other Japanese brands get a lot of hate is because everyone is looking at it from a "must class-lead" or "car enthusiasts" point of view. If you look at it from an average joe/jane point of view, Lexus and Japanese brands are amazing. They offer you the right amount of luxury that they believe the average person will use, reliability, and all for a good price.
Few examples: While the Lexus ES is no E-Class, 5 Series or GS, it offers a car is "sort of near" those cars for almost 10-20K less after options.
Similarity - Infiniti Q50 RS offers you performance numbers that is similar 340i and C43 AMG while also offering near the luxury features of those cars as well. But the Infiniti Q50 RS cost about 10-20K less after options and lease deals are about a few hundred dollars cheaper per month.
maybe because the GS has been neglected and may even disappear, we may have unrealistic expectations for the ES.
this new ES is pretty much what an ES has always been... quiet, comfortable, high quality without being super opulent or super luxurious, affordable, refined, mid size. it was never a threat to the german midsize sedans in direct comparisons although i have no doubt it took some of their sales for people who realized the ES was a great buy for those that didn't "HAVE" to have a german badge or some pretense or actual performance credentials.
no doubt there's places we could wish the ES was more opulent, used nicer materials, or perhaps wasn't front wheel drive, but then it wouldn't be an ES, it would be more like a GS.
Actually, if you look at the base A6 which is the largest seller here, the ES350 competes quite well. The base A6 has a 4 cyl. engine, front wheel drive, and costs about $51,000. It has 2" less rear seat leg room than the ES and 2 cu ft less trunk space. For the price of the base A6, you could get an ES350 UL with lots more equipment, faster acceleration, more room, quieter interior, and better reliability.
I've never even seen a FWD A6 on the lot here, 99% of them are Quattro models...
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
can you elaborate on why you say this? I'm honestly not up on a current a6.
A6 is just another level of car, its a GS/5 Series competitor, and the ES feels much less expensive. A6 has materials on another level, ride and drive on another level...
I've heard from other sources also, and my own test drives agree that the LS500 is not as quiet as my LS460L, theres some strange wind rushing sounds at speed, and the road noise isn't as well controlled.
To be fair though, 69 dB according to Alex is quite good. his dB readings in general are really high. I think the S Class was 68.
I work at a Lexus dealership and we have a few of the new ES350's in stock. I think it's a better looking car than the past few ES' but the interior felt cheap in some areas such as the upper door panels. It feels sportier and the F-Sport model looks great.
We had a white on red F-Sport model and it was very cool looking. I do feel like the GS is a better vehicle and hope it doesn't get killed off.
According to an article I read, only models produced after October can use Apple Carplay. I get asked about Carplay but nobody has tested it yet at our dealership.
Got a chance to see the new ES350 and F sport. I like the F sport more and it’s better looking. There is some agreement about some materials but I think it hits the price point correctly. I would the say the fit and finish are about the same as the higher spec Camry. Shifter felt the same. I would say the interior is more luxurious than the new Avalon as it should be
I do agree that the plastic at the window switches feels cheap. The Corolla Matrix has glossy and the tips are crome. The seats in the F sport are so nice! Much nicer than the regular ES. strange the f sport has for/aft adjustments while the ultra level ES does not.
Some lovely wood wood in the ES.
Was able sit on the LS immediately to compare. Yes materials in LS are somewhat nicer however the price was twice the cost. Interior feels roomier in the ES than LS. Also found the seating position lower in the ES and seats in the F sport were better than the LS.
Although I do not love the ES gauge cluster. I am willing to accept it far more than I am in the LS.
In the back seat of the ES luxury with doors closed you can hear a word for word conversation 15 feet away.
Personally, I don’t see a GS making sense with the F sport ES.
Last week when I sat in the new ES there was a new LS across from it which I sat in. I could tell immediately it is a different level of car. Is it worth the price difference? That's up to the individual. It is to me.
I could tell immediately it is a different level of car. Is it worth the price difference? That's up to the individual. It is to me.
That is why I had said somewhat and not significant. The LS was a $117K and the ES was $50K. No way worth it. Yes, different level of car. But I just found the design and seating position of the ES to be better. It was more roomier (real or perceived) Just the whole idea of the LS is just a big mess IMO. At least compared to the old LS460 and LS430.
"Somewhat and not significant" is not the case lol. Design and position and whatever is subjective, but quality is quality and the material quality is unquestionably much better. Everything you see and touch in the LS is an order of magnatude better, leather is better, plastics are better, everything is real stitched material, real metal trim, headliner materials.
I'm not a huge LS500 fan either, but you can't fault the quality of the interior. I would never choose a 2019 ES over a 2019 LS unless I couldn't afford the LS.
09-17-18, 03:11 AM
