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Maybe having the word "intimidating" is not the best choice for my thread. Instead, maybe I should have titled it "What deters those who can afford an S class from buying it?"
We all know the S class goes for more than the LS when they're new - and we know the S class depreciates more. So at quick glance on eBay looking for lightly used cars of same year and similar mileage:
2016 S 550 w/ 28k miles is listed for $6k more than a 2016 LS460 with 30k miles.
2015 S 550 w/ 15K miles is listed for $5k more than a 2015 LS460 with 15k miles.
If you are a CPO buyer and know you'll have repairs covered for 3-4 years and plan to get rid of the car when the CPO expires... you're looking at a very minimal difference to go S class. You know you're getting a more expensive car. Yet I still think a decent number of people would pass on the S class. The responses through the thread have been interesting and pretty wide-ranging.
I haven't been able to read through all of the 350+ comments but I have considered the S class several times. I passed on it because of the reliability issues I've read about. I hear they are better than they used to be but I don't think quite as reliable as an LS460 and my LS430s were. Yes you get a warranty but I don't want to keep going to the dealer for little things all the time. Its still an inconvenience going there and getting a loaner. Plus I probably would have leased one(I will admit I didn't look into buying one) and at $1200+ a month for the one I wanted I would have been pissed every time I had to drive around a loaner C300 for a few days. After 2 LS430's and one LS460L, I have enjoyed never having to visit the dealer any other time except for routine mileage services every 5,000 miles on all 3 cars.
I did buy a CLS550 as a fun car. It has cost more to maintain than the LS460 thus far and their CPO warranty isn't as comprehensive as Lexus but it has been pretty reliable thus far. I may look into an S class in the future.
As far at the looks I guess it depends on your location. Come to Boca Raton and they are about as common as a Honda. If there aren't over 100 of them in my neighborhood then there are 200. They are that common and people drive them around without worry or garnering much attention.
Definitely not that way in the US. Even for a LS I don't think the median income is anywhere near 250K. I know plenty of people who have LS's that make less then 100K a year, same with GS and especially ES and RX buyers where many center middle class buy and own them.
You know people who own LS’s they bought new that make less than $100k a year? That is definitely not the norm. If you make $95k a year your monthly income is $7,900 a month. An LS lease is at the bottom end $1,000 per month. Mine is $1,200. A finance payment on a car the price of an LS is $1,200-1,500 a month. That means that the cheapest LS lease is 13% of that persons gross monthly income, which is a lot.
For me the LS was not even an option until I was making $250k.
Exactly. I get a LOT of enjoyment out of my cars. Being a car guy, and my dad was a car guy, my car is a connection and a memory to and of him as well. My son loves my car and we go on “dada car” trips and make great memories there.
People who go to car meets and such, tons a great friendships and memories made there.
Cars have been a motivator in my life. One of the reasons why I’ve worked so hard and succeeded to the level I have is because of my desire to drive a certain level of car.
Thats the point, if you’re an enthusiast it’s not just a “thing”.
I agree with you about empty stuff, empty things. However, some things have meaning to different people.
He who has most toys when dies is a winner..... If I want something I get it some how but I won't go into debt to get it. I change cars often, the difference I owe on new car is not large amount.
I can afford cash payment for that unless they offer me 0% interest rate. Lately a dealer had 0.99% rate where I am qualified to get 1% rate discount meaning -0.01% rate for me. Rounded to 0%.
Lease or own, I am not the type for leasing car or renting a house.
A house and a car are really different. Owning a house builds wealth, owning a car does not. Cars are an expense all the way around. Leasing vs buying is just a question of how best to manage that expense.
I agree 100%. Had a Mercedes that lived in the shop. I went against my better judgment, because it was "pretty." Only kept it a year and half before going back to Lexus. They guy I was dating also had a Mercedes that broke down frequently, including the AC in July in Houston. But he wasn't bothered because it was covered under warranty. However, that's not the point. It's an inconvenience to have to get a loaner, which were Camrys for the most part. My dad said it was because Mercedes doesn't want you to break down again. Lol. I've had 4 Lexus and have never had a repair, only routine service. And yes, I can afford an S-Class, but I'd be pissed paying that sort of money to drive a Camry when (not if) it broke down.
A house and a car are really different. Owning a house builds wealth, owning a car does not. Cars are an expense all the way around. Leasing vs buying is just a question of how best to manage that expense.
You are right. But just to play devils advocate, rare exceptions and a good upcoming example are 60's Ferrari's going for $45M+
Several times a year with older Ferrari's, Bugatti's, old American Duesenberg's from the 30s etc.. This specific Ferrari is one of 36 and was raced many times. History, pedigree, and heritage usually dictate these absurd prices. A Ferrari 250 GTO sold for close to $70M in a private sell. Not to go too of topic though, just mentioning that rare or limited automobiles might actually appreciate over time like a Toyota 2000GT. As this thread is about Mercedes, the Mercedes-Benz 500K (1934-36) is very rare and worth a pretty penny.
Owning a house builds wealth, owning a car does not. Cars are an expense all the way around.
And houses aren't a money-drainer? Just wait till you need a new kitchen......or a new bathroom. Or when that real-estate/property-tax bill comes each year...if it is not already built into the mortgage.
Yes, a home can appreciate (or depreciate) in value over the years...but that usually doesn't do you much good unless you sell it and move (and, the more it is worth, the more property-tax you pay on it every year). And then, of course, when you sell your house, you are also probably dealing with the inflated value of the new property you are going to buy.
Last edited by mmarshall; Aug 1, 2018 at 03:13 PM.
And houses aren't ? Just wait till you need a new kitchen......or a new bathroom. Or when that real-estate/property-tax bill comes.
They have expenses, but that doesn’t mean over time that they typically don’t build wealth. Overwhelmingly the main source of Americans wealth comes from ownership of their home.
Paying for for that kitchen or bathroom adds to your homes value, and your taxes are tax deductible, at least up to $10k nowadays.
Outside of special classic or collectible cars, cars always depreciate. The argument for owning a house vs renting a house being applied to cars doesn’t make any sense.
I agree 100%. Had a Mercedes that lived in the shop. I went against my better judgment, because it was "pretty." Only kept it a year and half before going back to Lexus. They guy I was dating also had a Mercedes that broke down frequently, including the AC in July in Houston. But he wasn't bothered because it was covered under warranty. However, that's not the point. It's an inconvenience to have to get a loaner, which were Camrys for the most part. My dad said it was because Mercedes doesn't want you to break down again. Lol. I've had 4 Lexus and have never had a repair, only routine service. And yes, I can afford an S-Class, but I'd be pissed paying that sort of money to drive a Camry when (not if) it broke down.
Just one of many different personal opinions. There are many types of car buyers. Each one's needs and wants are different.
You know people who own LS’s they bought new that make less than $100k a year? That is definitely not the norm. If you make $95k a year your monthly income is $7,900 a month. An LS lease is at the bottom end $1,000 per month. Mine is $1,200. A finance payment on a car the price of an LS is $1,200-1,500 a month. That means that the cheapest LS lease is 13% of that persons gross monthly income, which is a lot.
For me the LS was not even an option until I was making $250k.
I agree. Most LS buyers are going to be mature people with common sense. Now, other expensive cars like a brand new M3 sedan or a similar "toy car" I have seen people purchase that have no business owning a car that expensive who make well below six figures. I guess they think it's cool to work all week just to make that car payment to impress their friends.
You know people who own LS’s they bought new that make less than $100k a year? That is definitely not the norm. If you make $95k a year your monthly income is $7,900 a month. An LS lease is at the bottom end $1,000 per month. Mine is $1,200. A finance payment on a car the price of an LS is $1,200-1,500 a month. That means that the cheapest LS lease is 13% of that persons gross monthly income, which is a lot.
For me the LS was not even an option until I was making $250k.
I think one could definitely do a low end LS making less than a $100K. It would be a bit difficult and a stretch and likely not the target buyer. The average auto loan in US is $500 or so, I think average income across all demographics is about $52K. My guess the avarge household income of a LS buyer is around $250K.